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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by mfobrien
    Nobody can really plagiarize another's photo unless you take a copy of that photo and say that you are the photographer.
    This is not necessarily true. About a year ago a photog sued a record company over the cover of a CD. The company requested he do the cover. When he did they did not like his price for the final image so chose not to buy. The CD came out and the cover looked very similar to the original artists concept. The judge ruled in his favor because the image could be confused with the work of the original artist. Side by side the images were very, very similar but there were differences as well. In the end the amount of similarities out wieghed the differences, and the original artist had a right to the concept which he came up with.
    Technological society has succeeded in multiplying the opportunities for pleasure, but it has great difficulty in generating joy. Pope Paul VI

    So, I think the "greats" were true to their visions, once their visions no longer sucked. Ralph Barker 12/2004

  2. #22
    bjorke's Avatar
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    Barnbaum has an original recognizeable style? Huh?

    .

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    .

    Let the market (market of galleries, publishers, ideas, take your pick) and the critics sort it out after the work is created. If there's something of merit in it, and you remain focused on getting it in front of people, it will eventually come through. Worrying about whether it's original is to pretty much guarantee that it won't be, because it won't get made at all. Make the work first, rather than speculating about it from a cozy desk chair.

    kb
    (who should be so lucky as to be confused with anyone on the "A" list )

    "What Would Zeus Do?"
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  3. #23
    Ian Leake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfobrien
    Nobody can really plagiarize another's photo unless you take a copy of that photo and say that you are the photographer.
    Surely you can plagiarise someoe's idea, concept or creative vision too. For example, I was recently on a workshop taken by David Ward and Joe Cornish. One morning I had worked hard to compose my best photo of a particular subject before Joe wandered over and suggested some changes. Not suprisingly his composition was much better than mine. Now if I posted the second image as my work, then although there never was a "Joe Cornish original", I would still be committing plagiarism.

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by mark
    This is not necessarily true. About a year ago a photog sued a record company over the cover of a CD. The company requested he do the cover. When he did they did not like his price for the final image so chose not to buy. The CD came out and the cover looked very similar to the original artists concept. The judge ruled in his favor because the image could be confused with the work of the original artist. Side by side the images were very, very similar but there were differences as well. In the end the amount of similarities out wieghed the differences, and the original artist had a right to the concept which he came up with.
    I think that adding the "legal" to the debate just confuses the issue because it deals with money. Copying for monetary reasons as such just deprives the originator of income.

    In this debate is it not more about the "ethics" of copying not the legalities.

    Michael

  5. #25

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    What is the real issue here? Do we create ownership of something, anything just because we photograph it? Is it fenced off forever so that no one else can approach it with a lens in hand?

    Does someone trespass us because they photograph a place we photographed or in a way we have photographed?

    If you seek to be original and uncopied then either through vision, technique or journey we need to travel where few if any can follow.

    Climbing from your car to get roadkill is a journey that anyone can make - and they will.

  6. #26
    Eric Rose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ian_greant
    What is the real issue here? Do we create ownership of something, anything just because we photograph it? Is it fenced off forever so that no one else can approach it with a lens in hand?
    Ian, you have missed the point or didn't bother to read the original posting. What I am talking about are photographers who as soon as they see something published, or the work of another photographer that impresses them, instantly run out and try and do their own knock-off. If they are newbies then I can understand it could be an educational thing, but once they have mastered the craft aspect then it becomes something else IMHO.

    I have always admired your stuff and have even tread along the same trails as you have. But if we have photographed the same things, which we have, people could easily pick out who's photos are who's. Ya I know cause yours are the better ones LOL.
    www.ericrose.com
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    "civility is not a sign of weakness" JFK

    "The Dude abides" - the Dude

  7. #27
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    Can one show urban sprawl without "plagiarizing" Robert Adams? Can one shoot Aspens at magic hour or in the diffuse light following a summer storm without "plagiarizing" Ansel Adams? Can one shoot a carnies, or transvestites, or crying children without "plagiarizing" Diane Arbus?

    Yes, Yes, and Yes.

    The danger of this trend in thinking is that of "The Melancholy Elephant," a story by author Spider Robinson. The central questions to the story and this discussion are both "What is original?" and "What is derived." That which is derived is not necessarily a copy or plagiarism. That which is original is almost always based on something that someone has done before.

    If someone tried to pass off their Pepper as Weston's "Pepper No. 30" that is the photographic form of written plagiarism and fraud. If however, someone shoots a pepper or a breast or a sink or a ruined plantation on an 8x10 and contact prints it using Azo, it may or may not be "original." The work is the determining factor (even beyond the intention) in my opinion.

    Matthew Brady shot the bloated and decomposing refuse of war. Does that make Eugene Smith's Iwo Jima and Tarawa shots less powerful or less original?

    Michael Smith opines in "On Teaching Photography" that all good art has a basis in the "personal, historical, technical and cultural." As far as I'm concerned he's right. I see value in learning the style and techniques of Weston, or Arbus or Adams or Smith. It is an opportunity to use these differing visions to create a personal vision which may be based on them all but different from each as well.

    Mike Davis

  8. #28
    Will S's Avatar
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    You can't even begin to recreate Weston peppers without the funnel.

    There is a spellcheck button on the bottom right of the "Reply to Thread" screen.

    Every moment is unique.
    "I am an anarchist." - HCB
    "I wanna be anarchist." - JR

  9. #29
    Eric Rose's Avatar
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    Well I went out for a nice long walk at lunch time. Got to thinking (that hurt in itself LOL) why should I give a #%&% what others do. I have my own path to follow and will do so. Getting worked up over this type of thing is a distraction and ultimately will not produce anything positive for me.

    Those that choose the path well travelled are probably happier with their work than I am with mine. I am never totally happy with my work and am always looking for a better way to photographically interpret my world.

    Smoke'm if ya got'em.
    www.ericrose.com
    yourbaddog.com

    "civility is not a sign of weakness" JFK

    "The Dude abides" - the Dude

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Will S
    There is a spellcheck button on the bottom right of the "Reply to Thread" screen.
    neighs to cee sum won looking out ofr owr spelnig hapits.

    Eric,
    Just out of curiosity, what brought this on?
    Technological society has succeeded in multiplying the opportunities for pleasure, but it has great difficulty in generating joy. Pope Paul VI

    So, I think the "greats" were true to their visions, once their visions no longer sucked. Ralph Barker 12/2004

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