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  1. #111
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjstafford
    I can offer a word or two regarding Abstract #27. It is neither complex nor content-rich enough compared to similar forms which use outlines of a human body; too much airspace, not terribly well considered, feeling largely accidental for a contrived multiple image photograph.
    As I said, Not Objective.
    Thanks. This does raise a question or two - points for discussion. I'll reserve them for later.
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  2. #112

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    Quote Originally Posted by blansky
    Well you took the words right out of my mouth...it must have been while your were kissing me....
    Michael
    Lips that touch water will never touch mine.

  3. #113

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    Quote Originally Posted by blansky
    Not wanting to rain on anybody's parade but that Minor White article:

    Jesus, what a crock!.

    In the words of my old grey haired mother, "just get on with it".

    Take some pictures, print some pictures, learn and grow.

    This guy sounds like he has way to much time on his hands.

    The surefire way to gauge when people aren't getting laid..... the women collect cats and knick-knacks and the men become drunks and philosophers.

    Michael
    LOL....you crack me up.....As I said, anyone can make a simple thing very complicated, even looking at pictures...

  4. #114
    David H. Bebbington's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blansky
    Not wanting to rain on anybody's parade but that Minor White article:

    Jesus, what a crock!.
    To be frank with you, Minor White the WRITER I can take or leave - but as I said earlier, Minor White as a PHOTOGRAPHER has been a major inspiration for me (and many others), and I would recommend to anyone to take an in-depth look at "Mirrors Messages Manifestations". I have been looking at pictures for over 50 years and have a large collection of art photography books - "MMM" is my most valuable single book by far.

  5. #115
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjstafford
    Lips that touch water will never touch mine.
    What was it that W.C. Fields said when asked if he drank water..?

    WATER?!!? Fish **** in there!
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  6. #116

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Sukach
    What was it that W.C. Fields said when asked if he drank water..?

    WATER?!!? Fish **** in there!
    My quote came from Bathless Groggins. Probably before your time.

  7. #117

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    Thank you Blansky. I'm sure your thoughtful retort managed to knock out a couple thousand years or more of philosphical discussion. I now image that philosphy departments all around the world will be turning out their lights and heading for the nearest brothel to get laid . Sweet mystery of life, at last you found it! :o

  8. #118
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    Having quite a bit of "empty time" yesterday, I've read and re-read Minor White's Silence of Seeing - necessary due to the complicated "flowery rhetoric". His style is maddening - I value simplicity - but it does serve a purpose - to induce me to read and re-read, trying to understand what the hell he is talking about.

    Certain passages resonate. He has put into words the exact form I use when "experiencing" a work in a Gallery (or elsewhere) for the first time:

    "In various experiments with stillness I went so far as to play that I was a member of photographer Anyone's audience of viewers. I looked at (Anyone's) pictures in my silence and stillness. I saw more - deeply and sooner".

    That "silence and stillness" describes, closely, what I mean when I say that "I try to wipe my internal mental slate clean, to set it up as a sponge, of sorts, to receive the language spoken by the work."

    Again:

    "If my understanding of his image is not the same as Anyone's, I do not protest to him, or try to contradict him because his experience is different than mine. On the contrary, I cherish his experience because it may give me a glimpse of an unfamiliar Anyone. I may like that part of him. Whenever I hear a man object to another man's response to the same photograph I get the shudders. They are both right, and when honest, beautiful. Whenever they treat honest experience as contradictions the barriers rise higher than ever between them. And blindness is heard as the sound of seeing."

    That last sentence is a little tough to chew on, but .. I agree!!

    This is all something to think about when we critique here, or write in responding to anothers point of view.

    I have another nine hours of Gallery sitting scheduled .. so I'll study that article ... again.
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  9. #119
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    That Silence of Seeing, by Minor White ... Two more passages ... then I'll give others here a rest. Personally, I'm going to re-read, and contemplate, until I'm fairly sure that it will become part of my photographic "being":

    "Along about the middle of my life I came upon quiet and stillness as a preparation for seeing. Before that I went as seeing negatively, that is criticizing before I even had a chance to know the photograph. In that turbulent way I required a certain taste by devouring, gallery hopping, personal biases, prejudice, lying to myself, and imposing a grid of assumptions instead of waiting until a photograph, or subject about to be photographed, spoke to me.
    Half of all this rancorous activity was useful; to this day I am not sure which half. Since I assumed that a measurement for excellence was required I had to go through all the uproar to devise a yardstick. The building part of it was useful. The error was in unconsciously coming to believe (that) the measurement, which I accidentally called "Spirit" was an absolute, or close to that. At the same time something like seeing was deflating my confidence, and making me think that I did not know one iota of what Spirit meant.

    Then I discovered how to be quiet with myself before photographing anything. Seeing in stillness stripped me of all baggage. I began to find such deeper experiencing as left no need to criticize. When I neglected to judge, vision was richer. Thus for several years I sought experiences at the expense of criticism."


    That "grid of assumptions" ... that has to be one of the most intensely debilitating influences in all of photography. It might be a good idea to devote some of my energy in an attempt to eliminate it.

    "We could further elaborate on the qualities of the Critic. He would be familiar with his personal foibles. He would be able to discriminate his opinions from his knowledge, and prefer "considered judgements" to ego trips. He would have a breadth of knowledge of camera work to compare my photographs with others like it. If I could become so aware of myself, my hangups, and impartialities that I could commit myself objectively to isolate nourishing photographic contributions to potential viewers, or to the totality of camera work, I might try to perform the critic's task. I, however do not hanker to recognize my deficiencies. I want to remain a subjective photographer. To do that I must defend and cultivate my personal idiosyncracies, enlarge my ego to the size of a colossal olive. I would rather leave objectivity to the critic and damn him for misunderstanding my images and me whenever I feel like blowing off steam."


    One comment: Me too.
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

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