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  1. #11
    shyguy's Avatar
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    photographing a catholic priest in a sunday mass will not cause anyone any trouble. hell, they televise their mass all the time.

    S.

  2. #12
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    Just to throw a little gas on the fire here, since this is a relatively free country, and if anyone is out in public, are they not a fair subject for your camera.

    If they are in a church, home, business or other place of religious significance then I believe they have a right to their rites and customs. BUT when they venture out into the open space, are they not infringing on my wishes and my rights by refusing to be in any photograph that I wish to make.

    Do their wishes have veto power over mine. Is it not a lack of manners or rudeness on their part to object to my wishes to make a photograph. Of course this said photograph could not be used for commercial purposes.

    Does the fact that I have a press pass affect this issue.

    How about that.

    Michael
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  3. #13
    bjorke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blansky
    Just to throw a little gas on the fire here, since this is a relatively free country, and if anyone is out in public, are they not a fair subject for your camera.
    Of course. And their religion has absolutely no authority over you,, either.

    BTW, on Catholic TV broadcasts: the pope ruled some time ago that watchers can be saved by watching mass on TV, but ONLY if it's a LIVE broadcast (no one fileld him in on the nature of satellite relay buffers, I guess).

    "What Would Zeus Do?"
    KBPhotoRantPhotoPermitAPUG flickr Robot

  4. #14
    BradS's Avatar
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    Thanks for all of the excellent insight and comments. I'll try to follow up on some of the points and questions that have been directed to me....

    Would the image loose significance or impact if removed from the context of having been made on the sabbath?

    On the one hand this is the root of my question. Not being a jew and having had very little contact with people of that faith, I really have no idea what the implications are. To me the fact that the image was made on the sabbath means nothing and thus, if the same photo could have been made on Monday for example, It would have the same impact for me.

    to ask permission or not to ask

    Sometimes I ask but, when I'm out on the street shooting under available light, most times I do not. It usually just depends on what I feel is my intended subject. If the subject is the person, then yeah, I will usually, but not always, ask permission. If the subject is the feel of the place and the place contains people. I don't ask. I don't hide the camera or the fact that I'm using it though.

    respect is always a one way street.
    and...
    Do their wishes have veto power over mine?

    Good point. This was on a public sidewalk. There were signs implying that dogs' bowel movements were not allowed, but nothing suggested to me that cameras were prohibited.

  5. #15
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Remember that the photo equipment importing industry in the U.S. at least until relatively recently, and the retail photo business in New York is largely an Orthodox Jewish economic niche. If you need film after 3:00 on Friday, go to Calumet. The Amish and Islamic objections to photography relate to the prohibition against making "graven images," but Orthodox Jews have no particular objection to photography on these grounds.

    I really think you just got caught in the Israeli politics relating to the Sabbath. The objection is that you shouldn't be operating a camera in the vicinity of the Orthodox, because they might believe that everyone in Israel should observe the laws of the Sabbath, whether they are Jewish or not. The more radical people who hold this view have been known to throw stones at cars driving on the Sabbath. In other words, being there and taking the photograph could potentially have offended some people, but having and displaying or publishing the photograph after the fact would most likely not offend very many people.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
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  6. #16
    BradS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Goldfarb
    I really think you just got caught in the Israeli politics relating to the Sabbath. The objection is that you shouldn't be operating a camera in the vicinity of the Orthodox, because they might believe that everyone in Israel should observe the laws of the Sabbath, whether they are Jewish or not. The more radical people who hold this view have been known to throw stones at cars driving on the Sabbath. In other words, being there and taking the photograph could potentially have offended some people, but having and displaying or publishing the photograph after the fact would most likely not offend very many people.

    Ah-ha, Yes! I believe you've hit upon it. This explanation makes a lot of sense and gives me new perspective on several other things that happened that day. Thanks David et. al. -Brad.

  7. #17

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    As I know, beside Islam, some religions are not allowing photographing of people, but those religions are less known for general public. Reason for those religions is: soul is connected with appereance, so if someones appereance is on photograph, then that photograph takes soul of that person. And, of course, no one wish to loose its soul.

    For Islam reason for not allowing photography is: Humans are made of god, at his likeness(simillar, but not same, as in christianity). And it is forbidden to show likeness of god. For that reason you can not take(show) not only photographs of people, but you are not allowed to make paintings of people or sculptures of people. Some radicals says that even animals are not allowed to be photographed or to be paint. That is reason for not having Isamic painters or sculptors and only a landscape photographers. They replace that direction of art with caligraphy...

    Of course, not every muslim society has same "toughness" on those rules. For example, in Bosnia where I live, in my town(Sarajevo), you can take and show photographs, we are like western Europe regarding life style. And Sarajevo is over 80% muslim town.(well that is how people react if you ask them about theire religion, but our way of life is like in rest of Europe, except small gorup of "ortodox muslims", but you will not have chance often to see them and to be in contact with them. For example I came from muslim family, but I am atheist and have "western European" life style with included my culture elements)

  8. #18
    rbarker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Goldfarb
    . . . The more radical people who hold this view have been known to throw stones at cars driving on the Sabbath. . . .
    How interesting. Would not the act of throwing a stone be a violation of the no-work aspect of Sabbath law? Or, do they pick up the stones the day before, and are just "dropping" them in the direction of the passing cars?
    [COLOR=SlateGray]"You can't depend on your eyes if your imagination is out of focus." -Mark Twain[/COLOR]

    Ralph Barker
    Rio Rancho, NM

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by blansky
    Just to throw a little gas on the fire here, since this is a relatively free country, and if anyone is out in public, are they not a fair subject for your camera.

    Michael
    There is no right to privacy in public. A person cannot expect it. So everyone is fair game for your camera, as long as they are in an area designated as public.

    I do not take pictures of people in public, nor do I like having my picture taken. But, I understand what my rights are and the rights of others. If I prohibit the rights of the person taking my picture (not that many would want to) they might prohibit my right to ruin their picture. Freedom runs both ways.
    Technological society has succeeded in multiplying the opportunities for pleasure, but it has great difficulty in generating joy. Pope Paul VI

    So, I think the "greats" were true to their visions, once their visions no longer sucked. Ralph Barker 12/2004

  10. #20

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    Quote Originally Posted by mark
    There is no right to privacy in public. A person cannot expect it. So everyone is fair game for your camera, as long as they are in an area designated as public.

    I do not take pictures of people in public, nor do I like having my picture taken. But, I understand what my rights are and the rights of others. If I prohibit the rights of the person taking my picture (not that many would want to) they might prohibit my right to ruin their picture. Freedom runs both ways.

    Mark, sorry, but you are wrong. Not that I disagree with you, but not all people and not all societies think same about freedom, demokracy, etc. To think that all societies or countries have to have same rules as society or coutry in which I(or you) live is very arrogant, and non democratic. Yes maybe county in which I(you) live has more freedom than others, but it is from my point of view. And who am I to say to others that I(my society) are in absolute truth and that others must follow our rules...

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