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  1. #21

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    You are right I should have said in the US.
    Technological society has succeeded in multiplying the opportunities for pleasure, but it has great difficulty in generating joy. Pope Paul VI

    So, I think the "greats" were true to their visions, once their visions no longer sucked. Ralph Barker 12/2004

  2. #22
    titrisol's Avatar
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    AND if for any reason you cannot go to church (i.e. sickness, old age, etc)

    Quote Originally Posted by bjorke
    Of course. And their religion has absolutely no authority over you,, either.

    BTW, on Catholic TV broadcasts: the pope ruled some time ago that watchers can be saved by watching mass on TV, but ONLY if it's a LIVE broadcast (no one fileld him in on the nature of satellite relay buffers, I guess).
    Mama took my APX away.....

  3. #23
    blansky's Avatar
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    I think both Mark and I were speaking about the US. I prefaced my comment, "that we live in a free country"...

    Perhaps before we push the button we must ask ourselves "what would Eisenstaedt do?"


    Michael
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  4. #24

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    Yes, I understand that you Mark and you Blansky talk about situation in USA. My point is not to get after you two. My intention was to underline how easily, without any bad intentions, we(from where ever we come) think that whole world plays by rules we are used to. It is nothing bad, simply we (people, humans) are like that. And that we can get in some unpleasent situations without any bad attentions, simply by not understanding differencies between our and other cultures.

    Regards

  5. #25
    Jeffrey A. Steinberg's Avatar
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    I am orthodox and a member of this community.

    The following is for background for those that care

    There is no issue with taking pictures of people in public. In a shul (hebrew for temple), its another matter.

    The issue with the organ is that we don't make music for fear of fixing the organ. Its called a "Gezera" (fence; a rule put in place to guard us from breaking a biblical negative commandment--"thou shalt not...").

    There is nothing inherently wrong with making music and in fact some could argue it goes a long way to "celebrating the sabbath." There is no biblical prohabition that I am aware of but I am not as learned as a rabbi who should be consulted in all Jewish Law questions (called Halacha). There is, however, a rabbinic gezera around playing music on the sabbath since if the piano breaks or a guitar breaks, we might fix it and that is work, which is biblically prohibited.

    I have been in a lively debate with a rabbi regarding a "shabbos" camera. We now have shabbos lights that are on all through shabbos but have a shade that allows you to cut their output to 0 and thus "turn" it on and off without reallying creating a flame or extinguishing a flame....

    I was thinking of a fully mechanical camera that uses springs for the shutter and no batteries. The photographer would have to rely on ambient exposure and his estimate of light levels. All we are doing is then exposing film for development after the shabbos. Its like taking film out of the canister and exposing it to light. That is ok. It revolves around the concept of "grummah" (doing a permitted action that creates a second action).

    Suffice it to say, he really didn't agree with me. The thurst of his argument was not with the technical aspects of my argument but "is it in the spirit of shabbos?" I have to agree with him since shabbos is a state of mind spiritually where we dedicate ourselves to god, family and study of the torah (bible).

    If B&H photo video can operate an e-commerce website during the shabbos--and take orders--, then this has to be somewhat ok. B&H, owned by orthodox jews, relys on a rabinic rulling that the monetary transfer actually occurs on Monday when the banks process the records. Very interesting.
    Last edited by Jeffrey A. Steinberg; 06-02-2005 at 02:18 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    --Jeffrey

    ______________________________________________
    Jeffrey Steinberg, K2MIT
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    www.jsteinbergphoto.com (my avocation)
    www.reversis.com (my vocation)

  6. #26
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Thanks for the clarifications, Jeffrey! I think most of my cameras would qualify as "Shabbos cameras" by your definition, and the light meter between my ears is generally at least as good as an old selenium meter.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

  7. #27
    rbarker's Avatar
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    Jeffrey - thank you for the additional background information. The ruling regarding the timing of the monetary transfers at B&H reminds me of the Japanese cultural belief of it being very rude to touch another person (a stranger, in public). Thus, the pleasant ladies who push people to pack the trains wear gloves.

    For B&H, though, doesn't the question still remain for the longer high holidays?
    [COLOR=SlateGray]"You can't depend on your eyes if your imagination is out of focus." -Mark Twain[/COLOR]

    Ralph Barker
    Rio Rancho, NM

  8. #28
    titrisol's Avatar
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    If they were using an automated system (i.e. computer) me guesses that the poeple are not touching the money nor making any transaction. Thus a loophole

    Quote Originally Posted by rbarker
    Jeffrey - thank you for the additional background information. The ruling regarding the timing of the monetary transfers at B&H reminds me of the Japanese cultural belief of it being very rude to touch another person (a stranger, in public). Thus, the pleasant ladies who push people to pack the trains wear gloves.

    For B&H, though, doesn't the question still remain for the longer high holidays?
    Mama took my APX away.....

  9. #29
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    B&H doesn't ship on the holidays, though I suppose money may be transferred electronically (though perhaps not, if they only process the payment when the order is shipped).
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

  10. #30
    jovo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey A. Steinberg

    I have been in a lively debate with my rabbi regarding a "shabbos" camera. We now have shabbos lights that are on all through shabbos but have a shade that allows you to cut their output to 0 and thus "turn" it on and off without reallying creating a flame or extinguishing a flame....

    .
    I love the notion that "pilpul" (I sure hope I'm using the correct word) still exists in the pursuit of clarifying and refining Jewish law in the context of modern living. Pretty neat.....Hope you prevail!
    John Voss

    My Blog

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