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  1. #31
    blansky's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey A. Steinberg

    There is nothing inherently wrong with making music and in fact some could argue it goes a long way to "celebrating the sabbath." There is no biblical prohabition that I am aware of but I am not as learned as a rabbi who should be consulted in all Jewish Law questions (called Halacha). There is, however, a rabbinic gezera around playing music on the sabbath since if the piano breaks or a guitar breaks, we might fix it and that is work, which is biblically prohibited.
    Hi Jeffrey, as a proud agnostic, I'm so often amazed at the customs and ideals that have been passed down through out the ages. How complicated we make our lives in order to simplify them.

    Could not the musician bring two guitars. Could they not be fixed if broken by someone who fixes guitars, for a hobby. As one man's vocations is anothers vacation does not the making of food and delivering a sermon ??, (pardon the ignorance) constituted work. Can one drive a car, because it may need to be fixed, ride an elevator, breath, because we may need a doctor?

    I find it all amazing.

    As an agnostic, I'm like a drunk, compared to an alcoholic. I don't have to attend all those pesky meetings.

    Thanks for your insights.




    Michael
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  2. #32
    Jeffrey A. Steinberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by blansky
    Could not the musician bring two guitars. Could they not be fixed if broken by someone who fixes guitars, for a hobby. As one man's vocations is anothers vacation does not the making of food and delivering a sermon ??, (pardon the ignorance) constituted work. Can one drive a car, because it may need to be fixed, ride an elevator, breath, because we may need a doctor?

    I find it all amazing.

    As an agnostic, I'm like a drunk, compared to an alcoholic. I don't have to attend all those pesky meetings.

    Thanks for your insights.


    Michael

    I guess two guitars are possible technically but since the rabbis declared the rule to protect the religion, the orthodox have maintained it and have taken it as though its forbidden. Its seems to work (at least to the orthodox).

    [digression for readers: There is a great book called "The Jew in the Lotus" about the Dali Lama asking a cross section of american Jews to come to his palace to help him figure out how to manage a religion/people in diaspora since we have done it so well for 2K+ years. Interesting that he would think that way]

    Regarding driving on the shabbos to take someone to the hospital--that is allowed. You are allowed to violate any biblical law in the pursuit of saving a life. Its called "Pequah Nefesh" and its a mitzvah (a good dead). We can do anything to save a life. Breath all you want; take an elevator. Do whatever.

    We can even extinguish a light for someone who is sick on the shabbos.
    Last edited by Jeffrey A. Steinberg; 06-03-2005 at 12:22 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    --Jeffrey

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  3. #33
    Jeffrey A. Steinberg's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rbarker
    For B&H, though, doesn't the question still remain for the longer high holidays?
    Their website is open 24x7 from what I know. Longer holidays are considered like shabbos except we can cook (excluding Yom Kippur). Thus, as long as they process the orders after the holiday, its the same thing as shabbos.
    --Jeffrey

    ______________________________________________
    Jeffrey Steinberg, K2MIT
    Scarsdale, NY

    www.jsteinbergphoto.com (my avocation)
    www.reversis.com (my vocation)

  4. #34
    bjorke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeffrey A. Steinberg
    Suffice it to say, he [the rabbi] really didn't agree with me. The thurst of his argument was not with the technical aspects of my argument but "is it in the spirit of shabbos?" I have to agree with him since shabbos is a state of mind spiritually where we dedicate ourselves to god, family and study of the torah (bible).
    ...which is why, say, the Israeli Defense Forces are allowed to fly F-16 missions on the sabbath, etc. Because it has been determined that defense of the state of Israel is something of a mitzvoh and therefore a worthy activity for the sabbath. Trying to fathom the sabbath rules on mechanistic merits, exclusive of the underlying "spirit of shabbos," is to lose track of the initial idea. It's not the lack of working that's most-crucial, but that one's attentions are focussed appropriately on god, family, and the torah -- however that spirit may best express itself. Within this framework, your rabbi sounds 100% correct to me.

    Now, of course, if one is a Lubavitcher (and opposed to the political and secular state of Israel), you can declare the whole business an insidious sham. And the idea that someone else's work (or photography, whether considered as work, as graven image, or simply as intrusion) is something you should mess with on religious grounds... I'm sure someone can rationalise it! There's sure been a fair amount of wishful and convenient stretching of the original charter (as handed down via Moses, Abraham, associated sons and cousins) over the years. Just ask their supposed faithful servants and inheritors Osama B L and George W B

    Which sadly is how human usage of religion inevitably always ends up -- rather than aiming vertically between the individual and god, it's always handier and easier to aim it horizontally at the heathen over yonder :/
    Last edited by bjorke; 06-04-2005 at 08:00 PM. Click to view previous post history.

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  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjorke
    Which sadly is how human usage of religion inevitably always ends up -- rather than aiming vertically between the individual and god, it's always handier and easier to aim it horizontally at the heathen over yonder :/
    Sadly, well said!
    John Voss

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