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  1. #1
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Indecency & established photographers

    Here in the UK in a recent indecency case, amongst many other images were those by David Hamilton.

    His images have now been deemed indecent which seems to mean that anyone owning any of his images (they sell for around $1200) or his many publications should have a good think about what they have of his work :-)

    According to Dectective Constable Ledger "Anyone who has David Hamilton's books can be arrested for the possesion of indecent photographs"

    He's been instantly dropped by publishers, while they await clarification.

    Just to clarify he is known for photographing young nubile girls, naked but definately not porn, and with full consent from model & parents / guardians. BUT they do range in age from 13+, even if most were over 16 at the time, he was also selling mostly to the American market.

    However laws change and here in the UK 18 is now the mininum age for nude modelling and probably that's quite sensible.

    But in the case of Hamilton's images our newer codes are being harshly imposed retrospectively, to an era that was far more innocent & no-one had heard of paedophiles

    This post is not indicative of my own personal views, I have my own criteria when working with models.

    I do think David Hamilton's work is on the borderline, and my reading of that border has changed from when I first saw his work as an 18 yr old in 72, compared to now. But that's perhaps maturity.

    Ian

  2. #2
    Loose Gravel's Avatar
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    What will the UK do will all the statuary of young girls, water nymphs, et al? The British Museum must be full of that.
    Watch for Loose Gravel

  3. #3
    noseoil's Avatar
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    Often here in the U.S. a "new" law can not be made retroactive. It sounds as if this is what was done. Is there an appeals process available to clarify this point? Much older law is in the form of a "grandfather" clause and thus protected. Statutes applicable were not in effect at the time a "crime" was committed, so there can be no punishment. tim

  4. #4
    Bob F.'s Avatar
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    It's not a new law: it is the application of the existing Indecency law. The guy in question was found guilty at Guildford Crown Court of possessing 19,000 indecent pictures of children: clearly these were not all by Hamilton.

    The Hamilton images were not singled out as indecent - only the collection as a whole. Mr Plod has taken the opportunity of "warning" people that these images are therefore "illegal" - this is not entirely true as each case is tried on it's own merits - another court (in London for example) may well reach a different conclusion should someone get charged for possession of a Hamilton nude only (no, I don't have any, and I'm not volunteering to be a martyr to Art!). Not surprisingly, the shops are not taking any chances, although I doubt if any images in books sold in the UK would feature under age children in any case.

    Bob.

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant
    [...]
    According to Dectective Constable Ledger "Anyone who has David Hamilton's books can be arrested for the possesion of indecent photographs"[...]
    Ian
    Citation, please? Just who is this 'wit, Ledger, what exactly did he say and to whom and what power does he have? I suspect he's some kind of loose nitwit amongst the mumbling rabble of civil servants whom the unesteemd British press chose to quote; probably not worth his weight in stale bread.

    Thank you.

  6. #6
    Bob F.'s Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjstafford
    Citation, please? Just who is this 'wit, Ledger, what exactly did he say and to whom and what power does he have? I suspect he's some kind of loose nitwit amongst the mumbling rabble of civil servants whom the unesteemd British press chose to quote; probably not worth his weight in stale bread.

    Thank you.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/...512621,00.html (warning: pop-ups). Detective Constable is the lowest rank available amongst the non-uniformed old bill - just above canteen cleaner in the hierarchy...

    Bob.

  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bob F.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/arts/news/...512621,00.html (warning: pop-ups). Detective Constable is the lowest rank available amongst the non-uniformed old bill - just above canteen cleaner in the hierarchy...

    Bob.
    Thanks for the info. Simon Ledger is food for toilet fish. Nuff said. It's all really about the particular Brit newspaper that chose to quote a dimwit whom they call out of the closet when they are desperate. Simon Ledger - sheesh, what a pervert. I'll bet he squats to pee.

  8. #8
    Joe Lipka's Avatar
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    According to Dectective Constable Ledger "Anyone who has David Hamilton's books can be arrested for the possesion of indecent photographs"

    This is horrible!

    Up until this point I thought the owners of a David Hamilton book have been guilty of having bad taste in photo books...
    A New Project! Transformations 02/02/2014

    www.joelipkaphoto.com

    250+ posts and still blogging! "Postcards from the Creative Journey"

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  9. #9

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    Agreed on the bad taste issue.

    Hamilton really impressed me when I first started playing around with photography back in the early 1970's. Then I tried smudging petroleum jelly on a UV filter and taking backlit High Speed Ektachromes of some pretty young ladies I knew. I realized just how easy it was to make this type of photograph and impress a lot of people.

    But "indecent"?! C'mon now. Somebody needs to get out more often.

  10. #10
    garryl's Avatar
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    When Hamilton's books first came out, I wondered "how does he get by with this stuff". Then I found out"he's in France". My how times have changed. Never did like his fuzzy, neo-lesbian teenagers approach.

    But it has been my belief, since the 70's, that if the great artists and photographers (of the early 1800's through the 1950's)were alive today- they would all be arrested as adulterers, pornographers, and child molesters.

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