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  1. #21
    df cardwell's Avatar
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    THE THING IS...

    one can use a digital internegative to faithfully enlarge a 35mm neg to be able to platinum print it, OR

    one can make an 8x10 contact print through several generations of hand-worked paper negatives

    Do we (through definition) endorse them both ? Do we disqualify the faithful hybrid and keep the highly modified but traditional paper neg ?

    At what point does an antique method like oil printing displace straight forward contemporary practise ?

    Do we bless gravure, but only allow 1900 methods ?

    Do we then disavow ascorbate developers ?

    I ask, because I don't know how to describe this world. But the act of description is to literally draw a circle around it. By defining terms, we are judging what is to be included and what is left out. Have at it, children. But see what photo supplies you have in the basement before you... define them out of bounds.
    "One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid,
    and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"

    -Bertrand Russell

  2. #22
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Noah Huber
    why not construct a "definitions" page here on site for refference, and whenever applicable, the OP can refer to what pertains... if they wish to give out details... or is that were we are going with this?
    I would create a "definitions page" if I knew how - and with the help of Sean, probably will, once we "settle" - more or less - on workable definitions.
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole
    So what about something like what used to be printed on music CDs?

    AAA = Analog recording, analog copy to analog media, through
    ADA = Analog recording, digitally output to analog media (lightjet),
    ADD = film - scan - inkjet
    DAA would be digital recording output to film and then analog copy to analog media,
    DDD then an inkjet print from digital capture?

    It might be difficult to do an AAD, though...
    A year or so ago when this topic came up I recommended the same thing. I still think it is a good idea.

    *

  4. #24
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by df cardwell
    THE THING IS...

    one can use a digital internegative to faithfully enlarge a 35mm neg to be able to platinum print it, OR
    It would be "Hybrid". To me, Platinum/ Palladium prints are solidly in the realm of Large Format contact prints --- but this would hinge on the DEFINITION of "Platinum Print' - yet to be done.

    one can make an 8x10 contact print through several generations of hand-worked paper negatives
    True. It would be a "Siver Gelatin", "Platinum", "Salt", "Carbon" or ...?

    Do we (through definition) endorse them both ? Do we disqualify the faithful hybrid and keep the highly modified but traditional paper neg ?
    At what point does an antique method like oil printing displace straight forward contemporary practise ?
    This is not to "endorse" or "condemn" or "deny" or "disavow" anything. The idea is to DESCRIBE what the various finished works ARE.

    I can say that a rock I've found in my back yard is "Grey Granite."
    Why does that description of it infer that I've "drawn a circle around it"?
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  5. #25
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lee
    this discussion in my opinion is best left in the hands of curators and not photographers with an agenda. It was not too long ago that a lot of the people here thought calling a gelatin silver print too howty towty (sp?) and stuck up. Now alot of people want to call the shots and define what each process is. I am of the opinion that has been done. Call a museum that has a photographic curator.
    I've just talked with a "past" Photographic Curator from the Museum of Fine Arts, In Boston. He agrees that there was no NEED for "finely cut" definitions in photography until the introduction of digital media, and is not aware of a definitive source at present.
    I am aware of Christies definitions, and will visit that site again for possible guidance.

    If you know of a another source that would be useful in this effort I would appreciate it - a LOT - if you would let me know how to gain access.
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  6. #26
    Helen B's Avatar
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    "If you know of a another source that would be useful in this effort I would appreciate it - a LOT - if you would let me know how to gain access."


    I've already mentioned the Wikipedia Photographic Processes category but it probably got lost in all the mudslinging. The thing about Wikipedia is that anyone can offer additions or changes to it, as explained here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Introduction.

    Best,
    Helen

  7. #27
    Ole
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    For current alt. processes, there is lots of information on http://www.alternativephotography.com - except that it seems to have been hacked since yesterday
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  8. #28
    df cardwell's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Sukach
    I can say that a rock I've found in my back yard is "Grey Granite."
    Why does that description of it infer that I've "drawn a circle around it"?
    Because that, sir, it what it means. if that is too antiquated a definition... consider that in defining what something is, one defines what it is not.

    And while it is very nice to say what something is... we sometimes are wise to consider what we are suggesting it is not.
    "One of the painful things about our time is that those who feel certainty are stupid,
    and those with any imagination and understanding are filled with doubt and indecision"

    -Bertrand Russell

  9. #29

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    Chemical - exposure made on any material which must be processed in chemicals, and prints made on any surface which must be processed in chemicals and in process is not used any other technique than chemical required. And process doesn't use any other metod for input and oputput than optical. Include projecting slide.

    Digital - exposure made on light sensitive electronic digital capture device and output made with digital device, including machines like Frontier which has output on chemical processed paper, but writting on that paper is made digitaly.

    Hybrid - any combination which doesn't fall in above two.

    Something like that.

    But in my "real life" I use term photography for using film and silver gelatine prints made from negative film, for slide (printed or projected) and term imaging for digital or other kind of image making/taking.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Sukach
    If you know of a another source that would be useful in this effort I would appreciate it - a LOT - if you would let me know how to gain access.
    Austin Community College’s Department of Photographic Technology has compiled a pretty comprehensive (85-page pdf) online Photography & Digital Imaging Glossary at http://www.austincc.edu/photo/glossaries.htm.

    Dr. Robert Leggat MA M.Ed Ph.D. FRPS FRSA has compiled A History of Photography From its beginnings till the 1920s at http://www.rleggat.com/photohistory/index.html.

    The American Museum of Photography (a virtual online museum) has A Primer On Processes at http://www.photography-museum.com/primer.html though not nearly as comprehensive as the alternative photography link above provided by Ole.

    An online electronic version of John Towler’s The Silver Sunbeam can be found at http://albumen.stanford.edu/library/...nbeam/toc.html.

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