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  1. #11
    MurrayMinchin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Slade
    Art students may scoff at the idea of learning business in an art-degree, but even the art world is full of contracts, negotiations, expenses, profit/loss statements, tax forms and last but not least GRANT PROPOSALS.
    Couldn't agree more!

    I would also give them a taste of self directed studies in the third year, and emphasize it in the fourth...it would make (at least some of them) think hard about who they are and what they want to say.

    Murray
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Slade
    Art students may scoff at the idea of learning business in an art-degree, but even the art world is full of contracts, negotiations, expenses, profit/loss statements, tax forms and last but not least GRANT PROPOSALS.
    Good idea Michael. But, wouldn't those subjects be better dealt with at the undergraduate level? Graduate work after all is about learning advanced topics in your speciality, undergraduate work is about preparing you for the workplace.
    Robert M. Teague
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    www.apug.org/forums/portfolios.php?u=2235

    "A man who works with his hands is a laborer; a man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman; a man who works with his hands and his brain and his heart is an artist" -- Louis Nizer

  3. #13
    roteague's Avatar
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    Whoops sorry. I assumed the subject was about gettting an MFA, not a BFA. I guess I should read the title of the topic more closely.
    Robert M. Teague
    www.visionlandscapes.com
    www.apug.org/forums/portfolios.php?u=2235

    "A man who works with his hands is a laborer; a man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman; a man who works with his hands and his brain and his heart is an artist" -- Louis Nizer

  4. #14
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    Brooks, in Santa Barbara is a photography/cine school that turns out thousands of graduates.

    I've talked to a few graduates, and find that they are theoretically educated but lack much real world focus.

    As a result I don't think that too many people end up as professional photographers for a living. Maybe that is not their goal. Don't know.



    Michael
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  5. #15
    laz
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    Quote Originally Posted by roteague
    Whoops sorry. I assumed the subject was about gettting an MFA, not a BFA. I guess I should read the title of the topic more closely.
    Wow! Me too. But that makes me even more emphatic in my point. Like it or not the manipulation of digital images is very much a part of the art world today.

    My son will graduate with a BS in photography in June. His program was grounded by film photography but explored every aspect of photography. As part of his degree he recently completed a 6 month internship with a major NYC photography studio. His Photoshop skills were highly valued and at the completion of the internship he was offered a full time job upon graduation.

    You cannot possibly offer a photography degree without including Photoshop and other image manipulation techniques.

    What school are we talking about?
    [SIZE=1]I want everything Galli has![/SIZE]
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  6. #16
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    Akron has had and is responding to some interesting feedback. The courses I mentioned are film based, but the Photo Dept. is pushing each student that claims they want to make a profession of this to also get a good computer design and Photoshop background. These courses are taught in the same building just down the hall so it does not seem too alien to them.

    A real world professional course has been added that goes into portfolio design, cost analysis, grant writing, business ethics and bidding procedures. I personally think this is too big a subject for just one course. The students make field trips to local commercial photographers’ studios and advertising agencies to see what they will encounter. I am told they had one back fire incident when a professional photographer, a recent Akron grad, apparently down on his luck, made the whole group swear they would not go into photography as a profession. I don’t think he is on this year’s tour list.

    An Akron grad from two years ago went to Columbia Grad School in Chicago. He came back at Christmas to show his work and talk about Columbia. He said that of 800 students he was the one and only doing entirely B&W. He said that most of his critiques were spent with 50% of the time defending why he was shooting B&W. He was also trying to remain 100% film, but it was a huge uphill struggle before even getting to the battlefield of photography and art.

    I did my undergraduate work at Johns Hopkins. I have been pleased and surprised to find such a good program on the edge of the Midwest, in a small town better know for a failed rubber industry. Akron University is far better known for its growing polymer research than its liberal arts, but it is nice to see the artistic side grow. I am also grateful that the State and the University see benifit to the students in allowing someone in his retirement to come in a play with the twenty year olds.

    John Powers

  7. #17

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    Michael
    I am a Brooks grad and you are right. Only about 15% of the grads are in photography 10 years after graduating. At that time,25 years ago, Brooks taught that a "good" photo was only good if the client said so. As a result I have never had a client except myself. Brooks never taught the majesty and mystery of photography. Over the years I have had many students express a desire to study at Brooks. I have never encouraged a single student to do this.

    Quote Originally Posted by blansky
    Brooks, in Santa Barbara is a photography/cine school that turns out thousands of graduates.

    I've talked to a few graduates, and find that they are theoretically educated but lack much real world focus.

    As a result I don't think that too many people end up as professional photographers for a living. Maybe that is not their goal. Don't know.



    Michael

  8. #18
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    severian

    Where are you? At what institution are you teaching?

    Thank you,

    John Powers

  9. #19
    laz
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    Quote Originally Posted by severian
    Michael
    I am a Brooks grad and you are right. Only about 15% of the grads are in photography 10 years after graduating. At that time,25 years ago, Brooks taught that a "good" photo was only good if the client said so. As a result I have never had a client except myself. Brooks never taught the majesty and mystery of photography. Over the years I have had many students express a desire to study at Brooks. I have never encouraged a single student to do this.
    So are you saying that you envision your institution's BFA be totally devoted to "art" not commerce?

    The only difference then would be that a "good" photo is only good if the professor says so.

    Still dying to know where you teach.

    -Bob
    [SIZE=1]I want everything Galli has![/SIZE]
    [SIZE=1]I want to make images like Gandolfi![/SIZE]
    rlazell@optonline.net

  10. #20

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    Art, schmart! Photography has a strong craft component.

    Back when my brother earned a BFA in photography from Ohio University he spent a lot of time in the darkroom learning how to print. And he spent a lot of time learning how to make printable negatives too. I appreciate that technology has changed and that knowing how to print black and white is no longer as important as it used to be. But I don't see any reason why today's BFA Photography students should be allow to earn degrees without demonstrating proficiency in the craft as it is now practiced.

    Who wants to make art by photographic means is going to have a hard time realizing his/her/its vision without being able to control the process. So I think you're wrong and the people you're contending with are right. I also think they're mistaken if they think that mastery of whatever today's process is will be enough. The students have to learn how to learn processes as well.

    Cheers,

    Dan

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