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  1. #11

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    Thanks for the pics... they really do help the discussion. The car doesn't do a thing for the image. If it really helped with scale I might be okay, but it ws hard to even see that it is a vehicle. I was tipped off more by the file name than the image. Maybe I should look more critically at pictures, but confusion was my first reaction. I like the image without the vehicle better, but I still can't figure the scale.

    p.s. what's the point of a circular jetty?

  2. #12
    Michael Slade's Avatar
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    I love it. 'What's the point of a circular jetty?' Hehe. The artist would also like it too I think.

    You can read more about it here:

    http://www.robertsmithson.com/essays/sanford.htm
    Michael Slade

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Slade
    I think that more than the retouching argument or question, this has turned (for me at least), into a more general discussion about landscape and scale. Most landscapes have an element that the viewer can relate to and judge scale from. Some landscapes benefit from not having anything in the image to give it scale, and some landscapes benefit from it being there.

    I think that this question might be one that needs to be solved by myself for myself (which ultimately isn't it how it's supposed to work?), but I wanted to get the opinions of those I respect on this site and see what other input there could be.

    The image in question is one of the Spiral Jetty on the Great Salt Lake. Both versions of the image are posted here:

    The unretouched version:

    http://tawayama.com/GSLPS/SpiralJettyPanovehicleinfra (dot) jpg

    The retouched version:

    http://tawayama.com/GSLPS/SpiralJettynovehicle (dot) jpg

    The effect is very subtle, but for me the difference is tremendous.

    Hopefully adding visuals will make my query more understandable.

    Thanks again for those who have offered comments. I appreciate them.
    Couldn't get either image. Is this because you admitted using PS, a moderator has seen this and removed both because its not allowed for APUG images?

    Pentaxuser

  4. #14
    Michael Slade's Avatar
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    Nope. You need to replace the (dot) with a period (.) in your browser.

    If I wrote out the html address completely the pictures would be posted in the thread, and since they are quite large I didn't want those who are still on slower connections to get clogged.

    Besides, where in this thread did I admit to using any computer manipulation? Those images are hosted on my own server within my own site, so for someone to remove them would require a hack into my server.
    Michael Slade

  5. #15
    roteague's Avatar
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    Thanks Michael for the images. I looked at them both. When I look at both images side by side, it becomes obvious in the retouched image that something was cloned/retouched out. The image without the truck is much more pleasing, IMO. Frankly, given the same circumstances, I may have retouched the truck out myself.

    Where to draw the line? That is the question the individual photographer needs to ask themselves. In this image, if there had been a whole caravan of trucks, I would have said a reshoot was in order, if the truck had been a fixed part of the landscape, I would have said to live with it, but since the truck was moveable (the driver simply needed to get in and move it) and just a small portion of the image, I would retouch it as well.
    Robert M. Teague
    www.visionlandscapes.com
    www.apug.org/forums/portfolios.php?u=2235

    "A man who works with his hands is a laborer; a man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman; a man who works with his hands and his brain and his heart is an artist" -- Louis Nizer

  6. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Slade
    So, I've been wondering what others have done, what their thought process is, and what you might have done when faced with similar retouching issues.

    Note, this is NOT a journalistic project where 100% accuracy to the image is demanded, but it is a project I am working on to capture the feel and impression of an area rather than being faithful to the 'T' to the originally photographed scene.
    I believe that the creative process only happens on the groundglass. I do 100% of my composition there and I never crop. Therefore the only retouching I do is to spot the print. This makes everything pure and simple.

    I like Menacing Tourist's suggestion the most. Just shoot it again and get it the way you want it before you click the shutter. That will save you endless hours of drudgery.

  7. #17

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    My take: if you can't crop it out, if you can't burn it out, if you can't dodge it out--live with it or do it over.

    I have a confession to make: I was once a digital manipulator. I have since attempted to reform and it has been over three years now since my last cloning. Every day is a challenge but I take it one step at a time.

  8. #18
    Ole
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michael Slade
    If I wrote out the html address completely the pictures would be posted in the thread, and since they are quite large I didn't want those who are still on slower connections to get clogged.
    Nope. If you used the [ img] tag they would, but not if you used [ url] or no tag at all.
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

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