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  1. #11
    arigram's Avatar
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    Who defines what is art again?
    Is it the artist, the public, the money-makers, the goverments and officials?
    aristotelis grammatikakis
    www.arigram.gr
    Real photographs, created in camera, 100% organic,
    no digital additives and shit




  2. #12

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    yes, very commendable, all this commitment and contribution

    what about the art? the imaging? the visual communication? the artictic integrity? the self expression?

  3. #13
    roteague's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arigram
    Who defines what is art again?
    Is it the artist, the public, the money-makers, the goverments and officials?
    I've never worried too much about that question; I just take pictures that I like.
    Robert M. Teague
    www.visionlandscapes.com
    www.apug.org/forums/portfolios.php?u=2235

    "A man who works with his hands is a laborer; a man who works with his hands and his brain is a craftsman; a man who works with his hands and his brain and his heart is an artist" -- Louis Nizer

  4. #14
    arigram's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by roteague
    I've never worried too much about that question; I just take pictures that I like.
    Well, that's the answer then!
    aristotelis grammatikakis
    www.arigram.gr
    Real photographs, created in camera, 100% organic,
    no digital additives and shit




  5. #15
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    The idea that "Only black-and-white photography can be considered to be ART - never color" makes as much sense to me as saying that "Only charcoal drawings can be considered to be ART - never oil paintings"... and, simply, neither "make sense".

    The medium provides a "carrier" for the art --- the ART itself is defined by its own character; read: "Aesthetics".
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  6. #16
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
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    Early color photography was quickly accepted as art if the subject and execution warranted it. Some of Ansel Adams work in color in the Grand Tetons was considered great art at the time it was produced, quite equal to his B&W work and this was in the 40s and 50s. Early work in color, done for Nat. Geog. is considered by many to be art.

    We have seen here the beautiful Autochromes taken during WWI that I think all would consider art as well due to their quality and not the novelty of color.

    I would judge each picture individually, but truly I prefer negative - positive prints rather than prints from slides for one reason alone. That is the accuracy of color and tone scale. Positive - positive prints distort the colors and therefore represent a less natural version of the scene to me. Unless this is intended to be part of the arty appearance or effect, it is off putting to me. There are a lot of pos-pos prints that are simply beautiful and art, but are not good representations of the scene.

    Now, I will mitigate that by adding that properly masked pos-pos prints fix the problemss completely, and so that is another good source of color art, but few people go to that extent on their own. I was referring to unmasked direct, unmasked pos-pos color prints above.

    PE

  7. #17
    Will S's Avatar
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    I'm not an art historian (thank the maker) but it seems to me that color photography has many hurdles to clear. First of all, because it is color, it has to deal with the entire history of detailed color renditions in art, namely oil painting. B&W photography also has to deal with this tradition, but I don't think it has to address it in such a direct way. I mean, color photography IS what oil painting was (and perhaps continues to be). That is a tough tradition to compete with or try and be a part of.

    The second big hurdle is that color photography has to compete directly with the images that innundate us all seemingly every moment we have our eyes open -- advertising. Never in our history have so many images been available to almost everyone. (The very rich don't really have to look at ads now do they?) Then you have mass portraiture, snapshots, etc. to deal with as well.

    Maybe someone who knows something can chime in, but it seems to me that if you are going to work in color you have a lot of issues to contend with, the least of them being color theory.

    Best,

    Will
    "I am an anarchist." - HCB
    "I wanna be anarchist." - JR

  8. #18

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    Maybe someone who knows something can chime in, but it seems to me that if you are going to work in color you have a lot of issues to contend with, the least of them being color theory.

    Best,

    Will
    The problem with making a successful color photograph is having the reason to make the image in color instead of B&W. Ansel Adams' color photographs are an excellent illustration of this point. When you look at his color work, you find that the image would work equally as well in B&W - they have NO reason to be in color. In fact, they look like B&W photos where the photographer substituted color film for B&W. They were considered for the subject, and composition, but not for the colors involved.

    Seeing photos that need to be made in color and not in B&W is the challenge. If color is not part of the story; if color is not adding an extra dimension to the photo that would not be there if made in B&W; if color is not part of the reason for making the photo - don't make a color photograph.

    Good color photographers make photos that would not be as good if they were made in B&W - the photo has to be made in color to be successful.

  9. #19
    Shinnya's Avatar
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    Well,

    This also does not mean it has to be in B/W either. I don't know if you can think one is "primary" than the other. They are quite different mental and visual process all together. So, it is rather hard to say which should come first.

    I tend not to like color photographs especially chromes because they look too realistic to me. There is not much room for me to "wonder." That is also why I tend not to like super-sharp modern lens, I suppose. What I like about photography is ambiguity between the worldly and the unworldly, which is often difficult to achieve with modern color photographs.

    Though color is a very important factor to achieve that at the same time if used carefully and skillfully. That's why I like toning silver prints and now Gum over Pt/Pd.

    I know I will love Autochromes though I have not seen them in person (PE, can I see them at GEH?)

    Regardless, I think a good photograph is one which does not make us realized the medium used.

    Just my thought.

    Warmly,
    Tsuyoshi


    Quote Originally Posted by steve
    When you look at his color work, you find that the image would work equally as well in B&W - they have NO reason to be in color.
    ----- P R O J E C T B A S H O -----
    Re-introducing Photography to Philadelphia
    Summer '11 Photography Workshops

  10. #20
    Will S's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve

    Seeing photos that need to be made in color and not in B&W is the challenge. If color is not part of the story; if color is not adding an extra dimension to the photo that would not be there if made in B&W; if color is not part of the reason for making the photo - don't make a color photograph.
    I see a red door and I want to paint it black? :-)
    "I am an anarchist." - HCB
    "I wanna be anarchist." - JR

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