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  1. #41

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge
    snip...if you are selling something for $800 that cost $20 to make, you better be prepared to speak intelligently and capably about your work, it is the least respect one can show a potential purchaser.
    good to have you back Jorge, hope you are fighting back that damn disease.

    .... but come on, $20 to make, you know thats wrong. What about time, experiance, skill, editing chemicals, dark room rent, extra paper to get the print right (I am assuming this is a B&W print). How many images where made before the artist chose this one. Thats like saying a the Mona Lisa is worth $200 and thats mainly for the frame.

    And as to being able to speak intelligently and capably, I thought we are always being told by people who are opposed to artists statements etc that the art should speak for itself.
    David Boyce

    When bankers get together for dinner, they discuss art. When artists get together for dinner, they discuss money. Oscar Wilde Blog fp4.blogspot.com

  2. #42
    blansky's Avatar
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    What I always find interesting on a site like this that claims to be proponents of photography, is the way we attack other photographers that attempt to make money from photography.

    I don't know if it jealousy or what, but people are always complaining about what some other photographer charges for their work. As if $800 was a lot of money. Given the fact that the gallery probably takes half of it, which brings it down to $400.

    Do people think that this is too much money? To earn $60,000 per year, for a 5 day week you need to earn a little over $200 per day. ( and who wants to just earn $60 thousand per year. In California it ain't a lot. Maybe in Oklahoma it is.

    If this print took a couple of days to shoot, print, frame, etc, then there is your $400. That would all be perfect if he then sold one per day. (fat chance)

    Why we get all huffy at the marketing and selling of photography by people who make a living at it, seems counter productive here.


    Michael
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  3. #43
    RAP
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    There are many fine comments on this thread about Fine Art Photography, great experiences and it is great that we can come here to read and share.

    But what about the patron who took the time to go to the exhibit and ask some simple questions? Why all the frustrations over silly stupid questions? Instead of be littling them in public, why not show some patience for who could be considered a student of collecting fine art photography? The audience for black and white prints is very exclusive or maybe, very small and needs to be expanded greatly if analog photography is to flourish.

    Why not ask the person which print they find most appealing and maybe ask why they like that image. Then add your own experience as to why you as the artist too the picture.

    Potential patrons of the arts need to be nurtured along, educated, not insulted by temperamental artists. To meet the artist and listen to his thoughts, techniques, inspirations is essential to the sales process.

    Just how many viewers looking at a work, who are thinking of buying, really understand what they are looking at? How many more would actually spend money to buy if someone, either the sales person, or better yet, the artist explained it to them?

    In order to keep analog photography not just from dying, but flourishing, we as photographers have to find ways to make sales, money, build an end market for prints. The hobbiest, enthusiest will not keep analog photography alive very long, least of all temperamental artists.
    Time & tides wait for no one, especially photographers.

  4. #44

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    Quote Originally Posted by livemoa
    good to have you back Jorge, hope you are fighting back that damn disease.

    .... but come on, $20 to make, you know thats wrong. What about time, experiance, skill, editing chemicals, dark room rent, extra paper to get the print right (I am assuming this is a B&W print). How many images where made before the artist chose this one. Thats like saying a the Mona Lisa is worth $200 and thats mainly for the frame.

    And as to being able to speak intelligently and capably, I thought we are always being told by people who are opposed to artists statements etc that the art should speak for itself.
    No it is not wrong, the value of the materials is $20, the experience, suffering, culling, etc, etc, nobody gives a rat's ass about. In the end it is what the print does for the viewer, if this person wanted to know why she should pay $800 for a print, I would have gladly told her why....

    Blansky, nobody is tearing down the photography for wanting to make money, we are just saying he does not need to be an ass about it...... how many repeat customers for portraits would you have if you acted the same way?....

  5. #45

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    Interesting how it's ok for the "patron" to be rude, undeucated, arrogant and insult the artist. I don't know how many times I have tried to explain what I am trying to do, or say, or represent in my work and to just be confronted at the end of it by "patron's" saying stuff like, oh but why don't you do more stuff like ...... enter "safe" photographer eg Adams etc here.

    I'm happy to talk with people about what I do, in fact I often enjoy it, but you can often tell from the way a question is asked where the convesation is going to lead. You know, the sort of thing, a pompus "I am a collector (they bought two photgraphs of flowers and a bit of 'desgin' sculpture three years ago) and how can you justify calling this art?" sort of question. How do you deal with an idiot who has already made up their mind and you know wont change it?
    David Boyce

    When bankers get together for dinner, they discuss art. When artists get together for dinner, they discuss money. Oscar Wilde Blog fp4.blogspot.com

  6. #46

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    You've got to be an exceedingly good salesman to do so. And by nature most artists just aren't. So don't. Better for the confidence and bank-book to focus energies on people who are genuinely interested with open minds. That may or may not have been the approach of the exhibitor who became the subject of this thread - who knows?

    The few real collectors that I know will accept images in exhibition are art as a premise, then ask questions to help satisfy their curiosity or purchasing decision second. That's the hard part.

  7. #47
    naturephoto1's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jorge
    No it is not wrong, the value of the materials is $20, the experience, suffering, culling, etc, etc, nobody gives a rat's ass about. In the end it is what the print does for the viewer, if this person wanted to know why she should pay $800 for a print, I would have gladly told her why....

    Blansky, nobody is tearing down the photography for wanting to make money, we are just saying he does not need to be an ass about it...... how many repeat customers for portraits would you have if you acted the same way?....
    Jorge,

    From experience, and I have participated in many hundreds of Art and Art and Craft shows over the last 10 years there are many other costs involved than only $20. If you are printing your own B&W or color great. You have kept much of your pricing down. But for people like Robert Teague and myself, printing off a Chromira, LightJet, or Lambda machine we have a big price tag for those photos.

    But that still isn't all for costs of the image. If you are selling the photo, it is generally matted- and depending on how, the size, and quality of the boards you can have about $20 to $30 just in Boards (this assumes 32" x 40", double mat, backing board and Foam Core backing -all acid free rag mat boards).

    If you are going to frame then you have the cost of the grade glass that is being used and the additional charge for the frame be it metal or wood.

    So if we go through all this and depending as I say on size, whose printing, etc., that $800 photo could easily have had at least $70 to over $200 in parts. To make it clear, I use custom made wooden frames directly from the maker (no middle man). These can easily run me $40 to $65 or more each. Glass prices can be all over the price range. Using the top of the line Tru Vue Museum Glass as an example in 32" x 40" can run about $75 to $80 a sheet.

    By the way, I sell a Chromira printed 24" x 30" Fuji Crystal Archive Photo, double matted in 100% non Buffered Rising Boards, Custom made wood frame, archival dust cover back, and Museum Glass in the 32" x 40" for $850. The price is higher in a gallery. That price is inexpensive for the product.

    Rich
    Richard A. Nelridge
    http://www.nelridge.com

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by blansky
    I don't know if it jealousy or what....
    Mr. Blansky, I think you've nailed it. Just once I'd like to see a posting about photographic artists and the money they charge for their work that was positive. Or at least that came from someone with a little experience with such things. If someone can point one out on this list, please show me. And don't tell me THIS thread started on a positive note. The quote from Mr. WarEagle stating... "while dripping with superiority and disdain for the lady who asked the question... all the while dressed in black and holding a wine glass" said it all for me. It was easy to see the distain with which that was written and the contempt the person writing it felt for the photographer.

    In fact... what about this picture? Is this what you mean WarEagle?



    B.

  9. #49
    RAP
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    When you boil it right down, the cost of materials, the cost of doing business as a fine art photographer is minimal. You can equate it to bidding on a commercial job, be it photography or construction. Is it really the cost of materials that justify the price, or even the time spent in travel, location, only to make an exposure for a fraction of a second that justifies the price of a photograph?

    Or is it the image itself that justifies the value? A fine art print, material wise, is just paper, cardboard, plastic film, metal or wood frames. The real value is in the image itself, the information imbeded in the emulsion of the film transfered to the emulsion of the paper that establishes its value.

    The image is what it is all about.
    Time & tides wait for no one, especially photographers.

  10. #50

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    Quote Originally Posted by blansky

    The answer to the lady in questions, question is simply "It's a fine art photograph because I'm charging $800 for it.



    Michael
    That's the key isn't it.
    I have met students from a local Chicago educational institution that couldn't print worth a darn but still thought that their MFA allowed their work to be called "fine art".
    Heavily sedated for your protection.

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