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  1. #161
    blansky's Avatar
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    I completely agree.

    The sacrifice of a few tears has certainly been worth what she has accomplished by spearheading our withdrawal from Iraq, impeaching the president and running his corrupt gang from office.

    She is a true visionary and we all owe her a good deal of gratitude. Beside there are plenty of children in the world, what's the big deal about traumatizing a few of them.


    Michael
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  2. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by StephenS
    Her work is so vital to society that a few small bad deeds are making a big difference for us all.

    Just in case anyone missed it.

    Sounds like the kind of justification used for a preemptive strike against a worthless, emasculated country (except that it sits amongst large pools of oil).

    *

  3. #163

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    What was that movie? Bill and Ted's Excellent Adventure? Where that really bad music they played was going to bring about world peace. I think Greenberg's photos will have the same effect.

  4. #164
    DBP
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    There was a short clip about Jill Greenberg on the tube this morning. They said some of her pictures were going for $5k. Amazing what people will pay to capture some buzz.

  5. #165

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cheryl Jacobs
    I don't know how I missed this thread before.

    Obviously I am shocked to know that there is a commercial photographer out there who is cold enough to use the kinds of methods this woman employed. It's offensive, and it's frightening.

    The photographer states that the candy or whatnot that was snatched from the child was given back within 30 seconds. That's hardly the point. It only takes one second to betray a child's trust, and that's what she has done. For photographers like me who spend large amounts of time and energy gaining the trust of our young subjects in order to get genuine expressions, this is repugnant. You can bet that her subjects learn some valuable lessons from this experience, even at the young age: 1) photographers are not to be trusted and 2) adults are not to be trusted.

    And if she believes that "doing no permanent psychological damage" equates to acceptable tactics, I truly feel sorry for her, because she has completely missed out on the best part of photographing people. The most rewarding part for me is not the photograph itself, but rather making someone feel important and valued, validating who they are and making myself available as a confidante, should they want one. It's an opportunity to record a person's strengths, quirks, vulnerabilities, attitudes, whatever they choose to show. It's the give and take and the unique connections that make people photography so rich and amazing.

    To exploit the inherently trusting nature of a young child...how can that possibly be fulfilling?

    - CJ
    This post made me think. There is alternative approach to photograph crying child. Go to, let say these days, Lebanon, there are numbers of crying children, and photograph them. I think compared to this, take off candy for few seconds is way less harmfull. And children cry, and if photographer portrait state of soul, and if photographer photograph children laughing, there are times when children cry, and photographer if want to portrey all states of sould shoul sometinme photograph children in crying situation. You know, if we don't show/see something, that doesn't mean it doesn't exists...
    But, maybe her problem is, she forced OURS (in our neigbourhood, town, country, society, close to us) chidren to cry, not THEIRE (someone elses, not from our neigbourhood, town, country, society, not close to us)...

  6. #166

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    maybe her problem is, she forced OURS (in our neigbourhood, town, country, society, close to us) chidren to cry, not THEIRE (someone elses, not from our neigbourhood, town, country, society, not close to us)...
    I'm sorry but that is just plain bullshit. A child is a child, here, there anywhere.

    No need to go to Lebanon to see crying children, misery knows no borders. There is probably a child with an empty belly or abusive parent or serious illness within a block or two of all our homes.

    What Ms. Greenberg did was more than just record misery, she diliberately added to what already exists. That is the issue.

  7. #167
    Cheryl Jacobs's Avatar
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    This post made me think. There is alternative approach to photograph crying child. Go to, let say these days, Lebanon, there are numbers of crying children, and photograph them. I think compared to this, take off candy for few seconds is way less harmfull. And children cry, and if photographer portrait state of soul, and if photographer photograph children laughing, there are times when children cry, and photographer if want to portrey all states of sould shoul sometinme photograph children in crying situation. You know, if we don't show/see something, that doesn't mean it doesn't exists...
    But, maybe her problem is, she forced OURS (in our neigbourhood, town, country, society, close to us) chidren to cry, not THEIRE (someone elses, not from our neigbourhood, town, country, society, not close to us)...
    You've missed my point completely. I have photographed a lot of crying children, but I didn't CAUSE them to cry.

    I would go in a heartbeat to record children crying in Lebanon, not because I'm heartless, but to reveal the heartbreak the kids are facing, to document what is happening there. There is value in that, although it's difficult to see. I would not be CAUSING the tears of the Lebanese children. You cannot compare genuine tears in Lebanon with the tears of Ms. Greenberg's subjects.

  8. #168

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    I didn't missed your point Cheryl, and I don't think you deliberate cause chilrden to cry to photograph them. I was not commenting your post, your post was trigger for my cynical nature to write what I wrote.

    CraigK, our pain and pain of our beloved is bigger and hurts more than others pain and pain of other people beloved. In about 3 minutes needed for me to write this post over the world 10.000 children died for different causes (hunger, illnesses, killing, neglecting, etc...) I am sure you think to every single of them and raising your voice, and I am sure you have spent on internet forums disscussing that issues same time as you spent here discussing this issue.

    Lebanon wasn't point, it was example, do not catch on it.

    Cynically yours.

  9. #169

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    What Ms Greenberg did, I would never do. But, I am sick and tired of "moralists".
    Nobody have signed release from God to be right. And moral is such elastic thing that it isn't worth of discussion. Have she did something illegal? That is only valid question. It seems she didn't, atleast we don't know that she ended up with law suit against her. Leave moral to yourselves (including me to leave my moral code to myself).

  10. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by haris
    What Ms Greenberg did, I would never do. But, I am sick and tired of "moralists".
    Nobody have signed release from God to be right. And moral is such elastic thing that it isn't worth of discussion. Have she did something illegal? That is only valid question. It seems she didn't, atleast we don't know that she ended up with law suit against her. Leave moral to yourselves (including me to leave my moral code to myself).
    So a Law - whether it be God's or Man's - is the only way to tell Right from Wrong? Poor Socrates: the unexamined life may not be worth living but it sure is abundant!

    Joe
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    "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive" - Howard Thurman



 

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