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  1. #21

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    Surely there must be a lawyer somewhere who will bring a class action suit for common assault -- and this IS common assault. Parents who are stupid enough to give permission for their children to be tortured are also greedy enough to change their minds when they smell money.

    Cheers,

    Roger (LL.B., don't forget!)

  2. #22
    Aodhán's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Goldfarb
    but that said, it's not so different from what it sounds like this photographer is doing.
    But it is o so different, does you wife deliberately create an environment that is set up to make them cry? No she doesn't she is an observer and does this in a safe environment. I also gather she comforts them after the fact and the usefull observation is done.
    And another more important thing, she does not make children cry on purpose for commercial purposes!
    If you think that's the same you'd better let your wife explain the difference...

  3. #23
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Of course there is no commercial purpose with the psychological assessment, and that is a valid criticism, but from the child's point of view the experience is potentially not that different.

    The purpose of this particular test is to see how the child reacts to an upsetting experience that would be fairly common at that age. Will they be able to play cooperatively with other children, share toys, and go home at the end of the preschool day? It is usually done at the end of the assessment session, so that the result doesn't affect the other tests, and then the child is comforted by the parent, who is present during the assessment.

    As to whether the photographer provides a similarly psychologically safe and controlled environment--that's a good question. Presumably the child's parent is present at the portrait session. My point is that it's not so far off the scale.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

  4. #24
    Ara Ghajanian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Goldfarb
    My point is that it's not so far off the scale.
    Actually, it is far off the scale. Your wife doesn't want to do it, but does because it's her job and the results of the test ultimately benefit the child in some way. This woman went out of her way to do this to many children and speaks of it proudly in the podcast interview.

    Plus the George W. Bush thing. Oh please. Be creative. She's just picking a topic that people can't disagree with, so that she seems to be doing it all for some noble reason. Total opportunist.

    She's the girl who pulled up her own dress in kindergarten to get everyone's attention. She's so starved for attention she'll make children cry. She'd be perfect as the head mistress of an orphanage.
    Ara
    Just because you're not paranoid doesn't mean they're not out to get you.

  5. #25
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    Most things in life are about "intent".

    An intent to cause discomfort for financial gain is pretty sleazy.

    We condone the torture of animals for medical knowledge but we don't condone the torture of animals for fun.


    Michael
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  6. #26
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Agreed about the matters of intent, greater good, commercialism, and sensationalism.

    My point is about the experience of the child who only knows that his candy has been taken away.

    Should this photographer do this? Probably not. But if she does it, is it the end of the world? Probably not.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

  7. #27
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    I agree that on the face of it, what this woman is doing to get a picture is very disturbing. I also think it is a pretty wild contrivance to associate the crying children specifically with the war.

    If we can assume for a moment that the children are treated with much love prior and after it might be somewhat more tolerable. Even still I lean toward distaste.

    On a different note.
    I really do not like her overly polished (as in the pores and any imperfections polished completely off of the subjects) images. For the most part I find her work very slick and pretty empty.

    The crying children being the exception. The very slick presentation is a very significant component to how emotive these images are.

    *

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by David A. Goldfarb
    Agreed about the matters of intent, greater good, commercialism, and sensationalism.

    My point is about the experience of the child who only knows that his candy has been taken away.......
    David,

    There is a key difference b/w what this woman is doing and what your wife does in the evaluation exercise. The former is done for the benefit of the photographer (financial gain) while the latter is done to benefit the child (early life psychological assessment).

  9. #29

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    "Presumably the child's parent is present at the portrait session."

    Actually in the interview, she stated that she often sends the parent out of the room (and made the statement of how she was a bit upset when this happened and 1 child DIDN'T cry), therebye limiting the child that confort level that happens in your wife's assesment test. Having a parent close, especially to that age child, can make a big difference.

    And I wonder what goes on really in the kids head...having been made to cry, then all these bright, flashes going off. You can tell from the images on her site that the kids are far beyond the intensity of what would most likely happen in that assesment test. Many of them look more frightened than just crying for a pulled away toy or piece of candy.

    In my opinion, there is absolutely no excuse for what she is doing and how she is doing it. By making money, and a name for herself in photography, by doing so just makes it worse. And this is no more art that the crap I took this morning.

    The supposed anti-Bush titles and reasoning are too stupid to even comment about.

  10. #30
    David A. Goldfarb's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copake_ham
    David,

    There is a key difference b/w what this woman is doing and what your wife does in the evaluation exercise. The former is done for the benefit of the photographer (financial gain) while the latter is done to benefit the child (early life psychological assessment).
    Once again, I'm in complete agreement.

    Put another way, the minor harm inflicted in both cases, whether for commercial gain, aesthetic goals, political statements (thin though they may seem), or educational assessment, is not likely to require years of psychoanalysis to reverse.

    Bear in mind that the parents are presumably paying a fair sum to have this harm inflicted on their children, so they would be complicit.
    flickr--http://www.flickr.com/photos/davidagoldfarb/
    Photography (not as up to date as the flickr site)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com/photo
    Academic (Slavic and Comparative Literature)--http://www.davidagoldfarb.com

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