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  1. #111

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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexis Neel
    Rolling On the Floor Laughing My Ass Off.

    Obviously you aren't a gamer
    Thanks I got the last half but not the first

  2. #112
    RAP
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    It is very easy to duplicate, simulate alternative processes either digitally or by anolog just by controlling exposure, density, contrast and print color. So what then is the artist selling and what is the public buying, a process, an image , marriage of both?

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/4715106.stm

    Here is a print by Steichen,who was known for working with experimental processes, that sold for a record $2.9 million at auction. Read the article and look at the image and ask yourself, why would someone pay that much for a photograph? Is the image itself that great, is it the process; "autochrome - a revolutionary method of producing colour photographs," the rarity-only 3 prints inexistence, by a world renouned, dead artist?
    Time & tides wait for no one, especially photographers.

  3. #113
    TheFlyingCamera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RAP
    It is very easy to duplicate, simulate alternative processes either digitally or by anolog just by controlling exposure, density, contrast and print color.
    Oh Contraire, mon frere. Silver gelatin does NOT have the tonal range of platinum or albumen. You MIGHT be able to fake some of the alt processes digitally on an inkjet printer, but it is still an analog to, and not an exact replica of, an alt process print. Alt processes are labor intensive enough - mimicking them in silver or inkjet requires an exponentially greater effort and investment in time and materials than just doing it the right way the first time around. You're suggesting that you can use a shovel as a screwdriver - theoretically it is possible, but just use the tool that was designed to do the job you want to do instead of forcing something else to fit.

  4. #114

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    Quote Originally Posted by RAP
    ...why would someone pay that much for a photograph? Is the image itself that great, is it the process; "autochrome - a revolutionary method of producing colour photographs," the rarity-only 3 prints inexistence, by a world renouned, dead artist?
    Just so they can say they have a Steichen most likely. The shot itself isn't anything special, and one has to wonder if he shot it just as a test for the process, since it has the full range of values in it...from bright sunlight to deep shadows.

    3 prints are probably all he needed to get the answers he wanted about the technique. But to pay that amount for it...someone should have their head examined.

  5. #115
    RAP
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    The silver process has quite a bit of latitude and can adapt to contrast needs, toners etc to give the desired results depending on materials, ones skills, the negative, etc.

    Still, how many can tell the difference when looking at the final image hanging on the wall and does it really matter? If you saw that Steichen print posted here on APUG, hanging in a gallery, what would be your response? What sort of comments would you give to the photographer who posted it? Too dark maybe, dodge here, burn there? Would you buy it and if so why?

    Personally I too, think the image itself is not so great, dark, simplistic, blurry, no detail, no texture, what Weston and AA would have called the fuzzy wussies. In fact, did not AA and Weston form Group 64 in response to what Steichen and others were promoting, the painterly effect in photography as compared to "straight" photography? AA left MOMA for a time in protest to Steichen taking over as head of the photography dept.

    Still, The Pond-Moonlight, taken in New York in 1904, that print is worth $2.9 million because someone paid that amount. What has made that Steichen print so valuable now? Was it the autochrome process itself, something I would classify as an alternative process? Right now it seems that silver images are selling very well at galleries, is it because it is considered a dying process, just as the autochrome process is dead. So it seems to me that part of the value of that Steichen print is tied up in the now obsolete autochrome process.

    If that is the case, what does that say about the future value of all the analog processes no matter what they are?
    Time & tides wait for no one, especially photographers.

  6. #116
    clay's Avatar
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    Yeah, no doubt. And all that hoopla about Da Vinci - I mean come on. A picture of some chick in black with barely a smile on her face? What's the big deal? I've seen giclee's of that stupid picture for less than a hundred bucks. Heck, if you can find the right issue, you can just tear apart a National Geographic and frame the print from that. Yeah, don't get it at all. Idiots.

    Quote Originally Posted by Alexis Neel
    Just so they can say they have a Steichen most likely. The shot itself isn't anything special, and one has to wonder if he shot it just as a test for the process, since it has the full range of values in it...from bright sunlight to deep shadows.

    3 prints are probably all he needed to get the answers he wanted about the technique. But to pay that amount for it...someone should have their head examined.
    I just want to feel nostalgic like I used to.


    http://www.clayharmon.net - turnip extraordinaire

  7. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by sanking
    ...Let's say, for exmaple, that you do a portfolio on gas station toilets...
    I had a very serious discussion about 10 years ago with a buddy who was keen on traveling the "Blue Highways" and documenting restrooms in all the greasy diners and dive gas stations.

    Who are you really and what else do you know about my past? Creepy...very creepy. I like it.

  8. #118
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    Well, here I go getting hooked into this thread again after I thought I was done with it.

    The Steichen print, "Pond-Moonlight 1904" is a multiple gum bichromate over platinum print, not an autochrome.

    In my opinion it is one of the top 3 photographic images I've ever seen. I saw the original print during the "On the Art of Fixing a Shadow" exhibition celebrating the 150th anniversary of photography at the Art Institute of Chicago. It is exquisite and the person who bought it obviously has refined taste since theirs agrees with mine. If you don't agree, oh well, and "Tut tut. It looks like rain."

    Speculate all you want about Steichen's motives in creating it (I doubt it experimental since gum printing was Steichen's forte), whether an inkjet could match it (blasphemy IMO), whether it is worth 2.9 million (someone obviously thought so and I'm glad, no overjoyed, now that it ranks as the most expensive photograph especially given the ludicrous price paid for Prince's rephotographed Marlboro Man), etc.

    The fact remains that it is a recognized masterpiece of photographic art and will only appreciate in value.

    Joe
    Last edited by smieglitz; 07-07-2006 at 02:43 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  9. #119

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    Quote Originally Posted by smieglitz
    whether it is worth 2.9 million (someone obviously thought so and I'm glad, no overjoyed, now that it ranks as the most expensive photograph especially given the ludicrous price paid for Prince's rephotographed Marlboro Man), etc.
    Joe
    Exactly. I can see where the arguments lie for this particular print and am pleased that it's this one one rather than some others it could be (though the amount of money is still, at least in my world, bizarre, and the singling out of this particular print is also to a certain extent random). The art market is a strange beast. It's difficult to define or predict what kind of 'art' (including photography) will command these huge prices.

    I think in the end a lot of it comes down to the whim of those who happen to have the big bucks.....They make the winners, the 'celebrity' artists, and pick certain artists from the past above others.

  10. #120
    Kerik's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by smieglitz
    The fact remains that it is a recognized masterpiece of photographic art and will only appreciate in value.

    Joe
    Indeed. I doubt the same will be true of the rediculous Marlboro man piece.
    Kerik Kouklis
    Platinum/Gum/Collodion
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