Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 70,279   Posts: 1,534,855   Online: 789
      
Page 5 of 13 FirstFirst 1234567891011 ... LastLast
Results 41 to 50 of 129
  1. #41
    billschwab's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Meeshagin
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,747
    Images
    52
    Quote Originally Posted by Grady O
    You seem to have forgotten the part where I said, "I have seen many lovely photos done in ULF or alt. process"...
    Much the same as saying, "I have a lot of friends that are Penguins, but have you ever tried to fly with one?". I don't feel as if I have anything to defend here. Still interested in seeing some of that magical art you spoke of as well.

    Bill

  2. #42
    VoidoidRamone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    New York City
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    490
    I don't think I'm being overly defensive here. I do not think I ever said that using a smaller format means a better photograph either. And I don't think I ever said that there are more good photographs being made with small formats than with large format. My only point was to provide a topic for thought. Everything I'm saying here is subjective. My reason for "singling" out these processes is because I find it that people who are shooting with ULF and Alt. Process seem to almost brag about their work more and seem to put themselves on a higher pedestal than photographers who shoot in small formats. Is a photo of a tree any better because someone carried a 90lb camera through the woods and then printed it with highly toxic chemicals? And yes, I feel inferior and I am very jealous.
    -Grant

  3. #43
    VoidoidRamone's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2004
    Location
    New York City
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    490
    Quote Originally Posted by billschwab
    Much the same as saying, "I have a lot of friends that are Penguins, but have you ever tried to fly with one?". I don't feel as if I have anything to defend here. Still interested in seeing some of that magical art you spoke of as well.

    Bill
    What does this have to do with penguins and magic?
    -Grant

  4. #44
    billschwab's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Meeshagin
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,747
    Images
    52
    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Hicks
    The percentage of alternative process users and ULF users that displays dull pictures with pride does however seem significantly higher than one might reasonably expect.
    Sorry Roger, I completely disagree with you here. Saying simply because someone is enamoured by and uses alt processes that they should be any more evolved creatively than a hack with a 35mm camera is ludicrous. I'm hoping you can show some examples to back-up your statement?

    All due respect,

    Bill

  5. #45
    billschwab's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Meeshagin
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,747
    Images
    52
    Quote Originally Posted by VoidoidRamone
    What does this have to do with penguins and magic?
    -Grant
    Apparently absolutely nothing.

    Bill

  6. #46
    Bob Carnie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2004
    Location
    Toronto-Ontario
    Shooter
    Med. Format RF
    Posts
    4,651
    Images
    14
    I have been lucky enough to have seen Salgados "Migrations" show as well Kenro Izu "Light Over Ancient Angkor" . Both were amazing and inspirational. But from two opposite ends of the spectrum , equipment and process wise.

    I have heard the saying " its nots so important the size but how you use it" but then again John Holmes seemed to be a pretty popular fellow.

    Any Ultra Large Format folks getting antsy and ready to dump their 11x14 camera, I will trade enlargers for one, I have a 11x14 enlarger sitting in my darkroom, dying to enlarge some big boy negs.

  7. #47
    billschwab's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Meeshagin
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    3,747
    Images
    52
    Quote Originally Posted by VoidoidRamone
    My reason for "singling" out these processes is because I find it that people who are shooting with ULF and Alt. Process seem to almost brag about their work more and seem to put themselves on a higher pedestal than photographers who shoot in small formats.
    You must be basing this on something. Can you show me where this is so? Granted, there is a lot to talk about when using alt processes. It is not simply mixing up some yellow or white packages and souping your film. I think this we all understand. Where does it turn to bragging and placing oneself on a higher pedestal?

    Bill

  8. #48

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Northern Aquitaine
    Shooter
    35mm RF
    Posts
    4,913
    Quote Originally Posted by billschwab
    Sorry Roger, I completely disagree with you here. Saying simply because someone is enamoured by and uses alt processes that they should be any more evolved creatively than a hack with a 35mm camera is ludicrous. I'm hoping you can show some examples to back-up your statement?

    All due respect,

    Bill

    Dear Bill,

    No, no examples at all -- just the same overall impression that started this thread. Plus my own experience with everything from Minox 8x11 to ULF. If your (and of course, by 'your' I mean 'my') pictures aren't worth looking at, because they're dull, it doesn't matter how hard they were to produce.

    And sorry, I don't agree with you at all either. Someone who starts chasing unnusual processes or equipment without bothering first to cultivate, in your words, more creativity than a hack with 35mm, seems to me to be taking a path that is an admission of aesthetic failure. They are saying, "I can't take pictures that are aesthetically interesting, so I'll master something that most people regard as REALLY DIFFICULT!" A bit like my deciding to take an LL.B. when I failed to get into medical school.

    Any obsessive with normal dexterity can learn any technique (you don't even need to be obsessive -- I got my LL.B.). Learning to take pictures that are aesthetically attractive is a LOT more demanding -- perhaps impossible in extreme cases -- and excessive emphasis on technique instead of aesthetics is, again to borrow your own phraseology, ludicrous.

    If I have misunderstood you -- and it is possible, after a luxurious dinner, with a grappa by my side as a digestif -- I apologize; but I think that it would take a lot to dissuade me from the view that anyone who takes their photography seriously enough to deviate from the obvious, easy techniques should indeed have acquired in passing enough aesthetic sensibility to produce (or at least, not to show) pictures that are dull, dull, dull.

    I will also repeat again that a picture which is nothing in reproduction or on the computer monitor may be very different (and very good) when seen as an original alternative process print or ULF contact print. But after seeing a fair number of both alternative process prints and ULF prints (and attempting to make both myself) I have to say that distressingly many of those that I see do not meet the simple criterion I set when looking at others' pictures: "Would I be proud to have taken that?"

    Nor, of course, do many more conventional pictures, or many pictures of my own, regardless of process or format.

    Cheers,

    Roger

  9. #49
    SuzanneR's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2004
    Location
    Massachusetts
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    5,730
    Images
    139
    Quote Originally Posted by VoidoidRamone
    I don't think I'm being overly defensive here. I do not think I ever said that using a smaller format means a better photograph either. And I don't think I ever said that there are more good photographs being made with small formats than with large format. My only point was to provide a topic for thought. Everything I'm saying here is subjective. My reason for "singling" out these processes is because I find it that people who are shooting with ULF and Alt. Process seem to almost brag about their work more and seem to put themselves on a higher pedestal than photographers who shoot in small formats. Is a photo of a tree any better because someone carried a 90lb camera through the woods and then printed it with highly toxic chemicals? And yes, I feel inferior and I am very jealous.
    -Grant
    I'm not sure about people bragging, but I think using larger formats with alternate processes can, indeed, make a photographer fall into a "process rut" for lack of a better term. For example, I think Sally Mann is, for the most part, a very good portrait photographer. Lately, though, she's been doing landscapes using wet plate collodion. At the end of the day... I just don't think she's a very good landscape photographer, and I'm not sure the process is helping the images. Other's may disagree.

    Recently, I've seen some new portraits of her now grown kids, and I hope she explores portraiture again with the process. These recent images are disturbing, as they look like "death masks", but the image and process seem to be working together better for me than the landscapes.

    At the end of the day the process, the format, the subject all have to work together, and just because it's an unusual process or an unusual format or hell, and unusual subject doesn't automatically make it a great (or bad) photograph.

  10. #50
    smieglitz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2002
    Location
    Kalamazoo, Michigan, USA
    Shooter
    Large Format
    Posts
    1,863
    Images
    97
    Grant,

    Curious fellow that I am, i went and took a look at your APUG gallery and your website to see what sort of subject matter you might find appealing. (I liked some of the Niagra work FWIW.)

    It is obvious from those two sources that you are drawn to color photography (at least in your current online work) and, if those sources are representative, that you don't do monochrome or alternative processes. I would dangerously and perhaps unfairly speculate that your printing may be done by a lab, or if you do it yourself, that you use standard color chemistry and procedures. That sort of framework puts you at the opposite end of the spectrum from those workers who do lug big cameras around, mix their own exotic monochrome or pigmented chemistry, experiment with different printing substrates and chemical treatments, and so on. Putting labels on those two ends of the spectrum, I would refer to people such as yourself as photographic "imagemakers" while the other end I'd attach the additional tag, "printmaker."

    I'm of the opinion that "printmakers" are also "imagemakers" and that they are generally into it not only because of the final image, but also because of the joy they get through working the process. There's "value added" there IMO. And experience has shown me it is really futile to argue about the relative merits of one vs the other. That's a horse as tired as arguing with a Photoshopper making fauxtographs on a computer that hand-made craftsmanship has merit over the machine. Two different mindsets with different purposes are at work. And as far as good vs boring work, you know what opinions are like...and everyone's got one.

    So, given your apparent color photography orientation, I'm curious if you find any alternative process photographers or work interesting? Can you name a few whose work you might find appealing? Never mind the boring, holier-than-thou alternative photographers or imagery you allude to at the start of the thread. I'd be interested in finding out who, if anyone in that field, you like. Can you name some examples?

    It seems this thread has been rife with overblown generalizations and has been largely about tearing people down rather than exalting them. IMO, not a good premise.

    Joe

Page 5 of 13 FirstFirst 1234567891011 ... LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin