Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 69,921   Posts: 1,522,090   Online: 724
      
Page 4 of 9 FirstFirst 123456789 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 85
  1. #31
    Wigwam Jones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Wilson, NC
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    303
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheryl Jacobs
    Tell me how you would give them precise, step-by-step directions to shooting with depth and emotion. It just isn't that simple. The already know the rules of thumb. They know exposure and basic composition. They know their light. They don't need me to teach them that. It's not what they asked. They asked how to develop personal style... and that cannot be explained in terms of technique.
    I did not have that information when I responded to your statement. Not to sound petulant, but I was unaware that "a lot of photographers" were your students, or that you spent a lot of time discussing what you meant by "concentrate on developing as a human being." From what little context I had, it appeared that your universal advice to photographers seeking a personal style was to go find themselves.

    Now that I understand the context, your statements make more sense to me. Mea culpa.
    Best,

    Wiggy

    Note to Self: Tse-Tse Fly - No Antidote

  2. #32
    Helen B's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Location
    Hell's Kitchen, New York, USA
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,557
    Images
    27
    Though the thought of 'rules of composition' and of 'teaching composition' gives me nightmares, I have found value in describing ways to approach composition or framing as I call it (as in 'Helen couldn't find a frame in an art gallery'). That seems to be one of the things that people turn to me for, in the same way that I don't try to teach how to light, I only teach ways of approaching how to light.

    I view the technical and practical aspects as prerequisites. We need to get those down pat so they are out of the way. They don't diminish the artistic* side of things at all.

    Best,
    Helen


    *Oops, I wrote a dirty word.

  3. #33

    Join Date
    Feb 2005
    Location
    The Cape
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,923
    Quote Originally Posted by Wigwam Jones
    I suspect that's the basis for the old adage that one should learn the rules first - then you'll know when to break them.
    I'm not a religious person....but amen.

    I think this thread is great. Thanks.

  4. #34
    Wigwam Jones's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Wilson, NC
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    303
    Quote Originally Posted by Cheryl Jacobs
    They asked how to develop personal style... and that cannot be explained in terms of technique.
    I think examples can be given in terms of technique, can't they?

    Clyde Butcher has a unique style, and a very definite technique he uses to express it. Brassai had another. Christenberry, yet another. One can learn about the techniques others used to express their personal style and make decisions about how they wish to express themselves and what they might do to develop that concept.
    Best,

    Wiggy

    Note to Self: Tse-Tse Fly - No Antidote

  5. #35
    jovo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Jacksonville, Florida
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,082
    Images
    189
    Isn't the critique gallery the appropriate forum to discuss what works, what doesn't and why? Unlike most other sites, APUG offers posters the choice of simply presenting their work, or having it critiqued. Yes, there are many whose comments amount to an "attaboy/girl", but there's some substantial 'criticism' offered there as well. From such worthwhile reactions, not only the posters, but readers of the comments can derive what they feel is of value and perhaps glean some insights into how a good photograph got to be that way or how one that isn't very good went astray. I'd like to see more use made of that very valuable forum.
    John Voss

    My Blog

  6. #36
    Cheryl Jacobs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Denver, Colorado, USA
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    1,707
    Images
    211
    "A lot of photographers" aren't always my students, however they are always people who know my photography and philosophy and teaching style, so they have the background to understand what I'm saying. And I can't say that it's a bad thing to tell photographers seeking a personal style to go find themselves. What would that be a bad thing? Because it's vague? Because they have to interpret what is meant by it? Because I didn't give them specific steps to follow to get there?


    Quote Originally Posted by Wigwam Jones
    I did not have that information when I responded to your statement. Not to sound petulant, but I was unaware that "a lot of photographers" were your students, or that you spent a lot of time discussing what you meant by "concentrate on developing as a human being." From what little context I had, it appeared that your universal advice to photographers seeking a personal style was to go find themselves.

    Now that I understand the context, your statements make more sense to me. Mea culpa.

  7. #37
    MurrayMinchin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    North Coast, BC, Canada
    Shooter
    4x5 Format
    Posts
    4,195
    Images
    15
    At both the fine art schools and at the college photography program I went to, never once did we discuss 'rules of composition'.

    Murray
    _________________________________________
    Note to self: Turn your negatives into positives.

  8. #38

    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    U.K.
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    1,355
    Quote Originally Posted by Wigwam Jones
    I might tell them about the elements of a typical story - plot construction, introduction, character development, crisis, resolution, dialog, voice, denouement, and so on. Those are a few of the 'rules' of writing stories.
    And then came post modernism

    To be fair, I think there's a lot to what you say about writing - but I think writing and photography should not be compared in this way. The 'conventions' (a much better word than 'rules') for story-telling are not the same as the conventions for other kinds of writing (e.g. poetry). I often think a photograph is quite akin to a poem, and much less akin to prose story-telling (though a photograph can of course contain narrative, as can a poem). With a photograph (and a poem) there is less to tie it down, it has the capacity to be more easily and quickly spoilt, (or rescued) and there is less to fall back on when it comes to putting into words quite what it is that is the particular formula for it's success.

    If nothing else, the answer to what makes a successful photograph or poem is less 'wordy', and more heart-felt.

    Cate

  9. #39
    MurrayMinchin's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2005
    Location
    North Coast, BC, Canada
    Shooter
    4x5 Format
    Posts
    4,195
    Images
    15
    Cheryl...I like that you help your students find, rather than point them towards, their own way.

    Murray
    _________________________________________
    Note to self: Turn your negatives into positives.

  10. #40
    Cheryl Jacobs's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Denver, Colorado, USA
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    1,707
    Images
    211
    This is a BIG danger zone for most photographers, in my opinion. It's much easier to emulate another artist than to start with a blank canvas, however it's VERY hard to learn to separate other artists work from your own afterward. There's enough tendency to copy without encouraging it.

    Besides, the bigger challenge is to figure out what you wish to express in the first place. It is illogical, in my opinion, to expect to figure out what's in your heart by looking at other peoples' technique. Instead, I encourage students to figure out what they value, what life experiences have shaped them in major or minor ways, what moves them, what makes them laugh. Anything to get them concentrating on where the art comes from. Technique is vehicle, that's all.




    Quote Originally Posted by Wigwam Jones
    I think examples can be given in terms of technique, can't they?

    Clyde Butcher has a unique style, and a very definite technique he uses to express it. Brassai had another. Christenberry, yet another. One can learn about the techniques others used to express their personal style and make decisions about how they wish to express themselves and what they might do to develop that concept.



 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin