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  1. #1

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    Silver based photography now an alternative process?

    I think the time has come. B&W photography can now be classified as an alternative process along with platinum, cyanotype etc. My beginning photography class used to be process based, all wet darkroom. I don't think I can justify that any longer. It must be concept based almost totally and using all the tools available. All the things that produce the beautiful B&W prints that we all love now go into the same class as the platinums etc. But I think this can be a positive thought. You still can't make an oil painting with a computer and I hope the students will realize that you cannot make a real silver print by any means short of a wet darkroom. Appreciate your thoughts.

    Jack

  2. #2

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    Quote Originally Posted by severian
    You still can't make an oil painting with a computer and I hope the students will realize that you cannot make a real silver print by any means short of a wet darkroom. Appreciate your thoughts.

    Jack
    so (just to be contrary...), is a print from a B&W negative made on silver gelatin FB paper via say a Lambda a "real" silver print? (wet, but usually no darkroom).

    Presumably though, as it is made in a wet darkroom, a silver gelatin FB print from a digital file made on a Meopta digital Enlarger is a real silver print? (and it could be from a scanned neg or a digital camera file).

    Or is it only a "real" silver print if it is analogue from start to finish? what defines the "real silver print"? How it is printed or how the original matrix was made?

  3. #3
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
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    Good point. I make cyanotypes from images taken with my Nikon D70, having digital negatives made on silver-based film and contact printed on cotton. The same negatives can be used to make silver-gelatine FB prints from digital input.

    Digital does not have to be a replacement; it can be an extension!
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  4. #4
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    I think a real silver print is anything that is not an unreal silver print.

    Quote Originally Posted by tim atherton
    so (just to be contrary...), is a print from a B&W negative made on silver gelatin FB paper via say a Lambda a "real" silver print? (wet, but usually no darkroom).

    Presumably though, as it is made in a wet darkroom, a silver gelatin FB print from a digital file made on a Meopta digital Enlarger is a real silver print? (and it could be from a scanned neg or a digital camera file).

    Or is it only a "real" silver print if it is analogue from start to finish? what defines the "real silver print"? How it is printed or how the original matrix was made?
    I just want to feel nostalgic like I used to.


    http://www.clayharmon.net - turnip extraordinaire

  5. #5
    blansky's Avatar
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    The little curve balls that life keeps throwing at us.

    Does a cloned sheep produce 100% natural wool.

    Dh or no dh.

    Should viagra induced pregnancies that produces a child later be allowed to participate in the Tour de France.

    The perplexing questions of our time.


    Michael
    I couldn't think of anything witty to say so I left this blank.

  6. #6

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    I think a real silver image should encompass all elements of the technique and process. That means that all elements in the medium should involve silver halide technology for the creation of the image. In my opinion digital photography is not photography. It is an alternative imaging technique. Nothing wrong with that, but creating the likeness of a painting in photoshop doesn't make the work a painting. Nor does digitally generating an image make it a photograph. Same is true with other processes as well. I work in bromoil and photogravure. I don't refer to either of the prints in these processes as photographs.
    Using any process other than those involving silver halide materials to generate an image does not constitute a silver gelatin photograph. I know its a pretty conservative definition, but I think the definition should be concise and minimize "alternative' interpretations.
    Don Sigl
    www.drs-fineartphoto.com

  7. #7
    RalphLambrecht's Avatar
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    Don

    What would you call my silver-gelatin FB print, which was contact printed from a silver-gelatin negative, which was made with an Agfa image-setter, using a digital file that came from my Nikon D70?
    Regards

    Ralph W. Lambrecht
    www.darkroomagic.comrorrlambrec@ymail.com[/URL]
    www.waybeyondmonochrome.com

  8. #8

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    silver-gelatin FB print, which was contact printed from a silver-gelatin negative, which was made with an Agfa image-setter, using a digital file that came from a 4x5 negative?

    Not a photograph? hmmm - thank goodness the Retentive don't decide what's what!

  9. #9
    Sean's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RalphLambrecht
    Don

    What would you call my silver-gelatin FB print, which was contact printed from a silver-gelatin negative, which was made with an Agfa image-setter, using a digital file that came from my Nikon D70?
    I'd call it a digital print, why not?

  10. #10

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    Quote Originally Posted by don sigl
    I know its a pretty conservative definition, but I think the definition should be concise and minimize "alternative' interpretations.
    but I think obviously matters little and is of no real importance.

    As you clearly know, many different processes in the past have been gathered under the umbrella of "photography". It is clear that many of the hybrid analog/digital processes will be too (and it is entirely possible that digital "photogrpahy" will as well, whether we like it or not)

    As soon as you try to draw a hard and fast line you end up cutting something else out and end up with as many internal contradictions as a fundamentalist at a bar-mitzva

    Photography has always been inclusive rather than exclusive (over much technological change) and will clearly remain so.

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