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  1. #31
    Dave Parker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Sukach
    Not usually. Most of these "contests" have an agreement stating that all work submitted, and the RIGHTS accompanying that work, are the property of those conducting the Contest. These contests are a way of obtaining LOTS of images for a Stock Photograph outfit.
    Ed the many contests I have entered over the years have never required me to turn rights to the property of the company hosting the contest, most of the time, the agreements have stated that I retain the right to the photograph and they have the right for a certain period of time to use in their marketing, normally 6 months or a year, but again, I have never signed rights over and the few stock agencies I have entered photographs with have always paid me if they choose to use the picture after the contest.

    Dave

  2. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by kwmullet
    Sounds like a good twilight zone episode, to me.

    She's got money. You want money. Therefore, she should give you money because she took your picture.

    I wonder if your sentiments would be the same in 20 years or so if everyone recognizable in every photograph you ever took made a career of chasing you down for their cut every time one of your images won an award, was published somewhere or was displayed in a gallery.

    I wonder if the the surviving solders in these Joe Rosenthal photographs of a flag raising on Mt. Suribachi at Iwo Jima spent much time tracking him (and now his estate) down over the years for their cut each time an image made a buck because they're recognizable in an image. I'd be willing to guess not, that they probably saw things in a little broader scope.

    I wonder if the decendants of Lisa Gherardini ring up the estate of Leonardo DaVinci for a few Euro whenever an image of the Mona Lisa appears somewhere and they're a bit low on cash.

    It would be one thing if you entered into a financial agreement with you as the model and she as the photographer, but since neither of you did so, it sounds like little more than envy and resentment to me.

    -KwM-
    These examples are not really analogous to the situation here. Da Vinci was paid for the Mona Lisa painting and all financial reward ended post sale. I doubt if he saw any of it in a broader scope at the time, and his estate or family really didn't have anything to do with it.
    The Iwo image is a little different. The people in the image were soldiers. This changes the rules. When you enlist or are drafted, you surrender some civilian rights for the term of the contract. A release was not required for the photo and the individuals in the image had no legal rights to the proceeds based on their enlistment as soldiers. This may not seem fair, but the military is not a democracy or a republic for that matter.

    A lot of what I read in this thread wanders significantly from the central point; and that is whether the model in this situation has a legal right to any percentage of the proceeds awarded in the contest. The answer is "No". However there are many post conditions where the photographer can be liable, and at risk if the image is used for commercial gain. At that point the model SHOULD challenge the use and demand compensation. The photographer screwed up by not getting a release. In my mind, its wrong to defend him/her. People who are voicing this "let it slide" approach are condoning a level of unprofessionalism on the photographers part. And thats not a good reflection on professional photography in general. I care a lot about that. Granted the photographer was a student. There is an opportunity to provide a little education here. Granted, the model in this case may feel a little cheated and defensive. Again, nothing like getting burned a little to make you a little wiser next time.
    Don Sigl
    www.drs-fineartphoto.com

  3. #33
    Charles Webb's Avatar
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    You have experienced a learning situation, cut your losses, move on!

    But don't forget what you learned!

    Charlie.....................................

  4. #34
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    Here in Switzerland normaly a model get 10 % of the money only very famous ones get a bit more!
    Good light and nice shadows!

    www.artfoto.ch

  5. #35
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    At the end of the day, while I don't know your age, or that of the photog, I would guess you're both fairly young.

    So, please do as I suggested and inform her that she should have gotten a release. Then drop it.

    And let the both of you walk away, each of you having had a life lesson worth learning, while still young enough for it to not have had serious negative consequences to either party.

  6. #36
    gr82bart's Avatar
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    Reading this thread makes me sad for the future of phootography.

    Regards, Art.
    Visit my website at www.ArtLiem.com
    or my online portfolios at APUG and ModelMayhem

  7. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by get_me_a_gun
    yes she took the photo but if it was a photo of a crappy model it wouldnt have won. Out of all the photos shes taken she said the ones of me came out best, because I do most of the work and she just happened to get lucky.
    I'm trying to understand what you're saying here. Did you mean to say that for this particular photo session that you did to her, you did "most of the work" for her and that was good enough of work and won the contest, regardess of her ability and photgraphic skills? Or did you just say you felt you did the work and you deserve the reward, but she got all the sweets and wasn't or still isn't sharing them with you? Who took the shots?

    I had a similar experience once or twice in the past, but because they were photo students and I didn't mind where the photos went and what they received. I'm not a model or in any good model-type of physical shape, but that sort of thing is not always the top priority. It all depends on your definition of what good models are, though.

    Tell her jokingly that if she won the contest again with your images, she would owe you a little gift and see if she would be more willing to discuss about this issue or not.

  8. #38

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    Quote Originally Posted by gr82bart
    Reading this thread makes me sad for the future of phootography.

    Regards, Art.

    I sadly have to agree with you Art. Yet another reason deal with the pinheads of the legal system.
    Ron
    Memphis

  9. #39
    Nicole's Avatar
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    At our local college students are always photographing each other and using them in competitions and portfolios. I have never heard a single discussion about money being shared. You are mates and help each other out during the learning stages. Be happy for her. If she wants to photograph you again, then mention the model release and and money straight away. It sounds like she's sees you as a good friend instead of a paid model - a lesson to learn for both of you - but is it worth losing a friend over?

  10. #40

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    Quote Originally Posted by gr82bart
    Reading this thread makes me sad for the future of phootography.

    Regards, Art.
    Dear Art,

    Me too. Also, if this 'entitlement' attitude carries over into his professional life, I predict that the latter will be short and unprofitable.

    Cheers,

    Roger

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