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Thread: Quality

  1. #11
    Ole
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    Quote Originally Posted by donbga View Post
    Quality is someone with over 2600 posts that subscribes to APUG.
    No thanks, that definition is far too loose!
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole View Post
    No thanks, that definition is far too loose!
    Ole- you're right. That would mean that in about a month, Marko would qualify and that certain moderators who just keep their words to themselves much of the time would not.

  3. #13
    Ole
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingCamera View Post
    Ole- you're right. That would mean that in about a month, Marko would qualify and that certain moderators who just keep their words to themselves much of the time would not.
    Present company excluded, of course...
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

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    Quote Originally Posted by donbga View Post
    Quality is someone with over 2600 posts that subscribes to APUG.
    Ah! Marko! No, wait... My verbal ability runs more along the lines of, well, the runs, so I won't attempt to quip a moving quote, but I would think that 'Quality' embodies at least these things: something that is better than it needs to be, something that is freely given, something that is both appropriate and useful, and something that is a product of great attention to detail and great care. These things need not be applied to things alone, but also to service, personal comportment, or an entire individuals lifetime.

    - Randy

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    Ole, relative to your remark about inactivity etc...boy are we in agreement.
    Claire (Ms Anne Thrope is in the darkroom)

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    Relative to Ole's concern about differences in opinion or reaching a consensus in defining costs is quite true. The definition will be different for each person. The rating given by an entity may cause discension and strong disagreements as far as others are concerned. However, there is plenty of arguments about Canon vs Nikon for example.

    Example: Metal, dependandable, reliable, easy to maintain, low manufacturing cos:t name AK47. Cost to society, my opinion, Extremely high which means low quality but perhaps, far better cigarettes.
    Claire (Ms Anne Thrope is in the darkroom)

  7. #17
    Ole
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    Quote Originally Posted by Claire Senft View Post
    Example: Metal, dependandable, reliable, easy to maintain, low manufacturing cos:t name AK47. Cost to society, my opinion, Extremely high which means low quality but perhaps, far better cigarettes.
    Or in the other direction, but the same kind of "tool": A Holland and Holland bespoke shotgun. The "Royal over-and-under" (cal. 12) costs a mere £60,375.-, and is undoubtedly a "quality gun". Cost to society is virtually nil (except perhaps from accruing the necessary funds)...

    Nor do I believe, after seeing (and firing some) Soviet equivalens that the AK47 is especially "low quality". A Kalashnikov is an incredibly crude intrument that is desinged to keep working, no matter what. Rather like a FED camera, in fact...
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  8. #18

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    Ole, it was not my intention, in fact the opposite was my intention, as far as the "quality" of an AK47 is relative to its intended purpose. It is superb in that evaluation. I only rate it low in quality because I believe it to be of great expense to society relative to the way it is used and what it is designed to accomplish.
    Claire (Ms Anne Thrope is in the darkroom)

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    zen and the art of motorcycle maintenance

    Quote Originally Posted by Ole View Post
    You're getting deep into Robert M. Pirsig-area here...

    Lila, not motorbikes.

    That book is the only serious attempt to define "quality" I've ever seen, but I still don't know what it means. Of course that itself could mean that the book was successful?
    Defining quality by value is great for commercial photography if you can define aesthetics and fit-for-purpose well enough. But it runs into definition problems when you try to apply it to art or illustrative photography.

    "Quality is the least overall cost to society." is bandied around a lot in business currently because it addresses the 'higher quality by skilled craft and good materials at any cost to the environment' issues. So depending on your perspective, the new Ford Hybrid SUV might be seen as prividing better value and hence quality than a regular SUV.

    And perhaps, you can apply the def to art. That is if the art in question is in fact contributing to society.

  10. #20
    Ole
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    I understood that, and that's why I mentioned the Kalashnikov. In many ways the quality is abysmally far beneath that of a western equivalent, yet the very crudeness and simplicity combine into something that is surprisingly well-designed and reliable - when it works at all. Rather like a FED...

    Mentioning "the cost to society" only makes me think "which society?" The Kalashnikov has had a far greater impact on Soviet (and thus contemporary Russian, or European for that matter) society than the AK47 has ever had on the US society. The Nuclear missiles were a powerful deterrent throughout the "cold war", but most of Europe were far more aware of the threat of one million Soviet soldiers with Kalashnikovs.

    The question we're falling into here is that of "intended usage", which is a slippery slope indeed. FOr a more peaceful example, the otherwise exellent Jim Galli is using Petzval Portrait lenses far beyond their design criteria: A 14" Petzval lens was intended for "cabinet card" size, slightly less than 4x6". Using the same lens on 8x10" gives the "characteristic swirly bokeh" which is now seen as "quality". But within the design limitations, a Petzval lens is sharp all over! Max Petzval would have been depressed... So where's the quality there?
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

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