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Thread: Ayn Rand's POV

  1. #11

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bromo33333 View Post
    Sounds to me like you have a few issues to sort through....



    Why does this even matter, actually? You either do it because you love it, or you don't do it. Why do you need a label to put on it? The label is societal, and has nothing to do with a personal interest ultimately. THERE IS NO HEIRARCHY - all of it is a silly illusion because we are musing on this site AND NOT SHOOTING SOME PICTURES, uh, er, art, uh, er illustrations, uh, uh, uh .... ack!

    There is a good movie you should see - "I heard the Mermaid Singing" which is a great film about just this subject - doing what you love. I just hope you won't call the movie "Illustration!"

    Thank you for your response, though one was certainly not called for or warranted.

    I don't think that I have issues to sort through and it certainly is not within your realm to make those sorts of determinations.

    I venture that I am making more photographs than many here.
    Art is a step from what is obvious and well-known toward what is arcane and concealed.

    Visit my website at http://www.donaldmillerphotography.com

  2. #12
    Bromo33333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Miller View Post
    Thank you for your response, though one was certainly not called for or warranted.

    I don't think that I have issues to sort through and it certainly is not within your realm to make those sorts of determinations.

    I venture that I am making more photographs than many here.
    Sorry if you took offense, but I call them the way I see them. I am glad you think I am wrong, but I do think that sending a lot of time (apparently) agonizing about labels is not a very productive. "Illustrations" or "Art" as labels at the end of the day may not matter as much in the grand scheme of things.

    If you are worried about where you satand on a totem pole, you certainly would NOT attempt to be an artist (20+ years of experience of being a artist speaks to that one! )

    Congratulations on your prolific production of photographs, if you make this claim, I would not dispute it. I just was responding - and find it rather curious that you post to a discussion forum not expecting a reply?
    B & D
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    Quiquid Latine dictum sit altum viditur

  3. #13

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bromo33333 View Post
    Sorry if you took offense, but I call them the way I see them. I am glad you think I am wrong, but I do think that sending a lot of time (apparently) agonizing about labels is not a very productive. "Illustrations" or "Art" as labels at the end of the day may not matter as much in the grand scheme of things.

    If you are worried about where you satand on a totem pole, you certainly would NOT attempt to be an artist (20+ years of experience of being a artist speaks to that one! )

    Congratulations on your prolific production of photographs, if you make this claim, I would not dispute it. I just was responding - and find it rather curious that you post to a discussion forum not expecting a reply?
    I will leave it with this one last comment. My original post was in response to what Ms.Rand stated. Your post was in response to what I stated. Therein lies a world of disparity. It seems that you took offense to my position rather than commenting to the matter at hand. Perhaps it would stand you in better stead if you remembered that in the future. Have a great day .
    Art is a step from what is obvious and well-known toward what is arcane and concealed.

    Visit my website at http://www.donaldmillerphotography.com

  4. #14
    Bromo33333's Avatar
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    Donald,

    This is Dianne, writing from Brent/Bromo's account. I have an BFA in photography and MFA in intermedia (photography, video, artists books). This comment you made about being in an artistic field and being under the "mistaken" presumption that it involves creativity...I recognize this as an artist questioning his/her decision from long ago to become an artist.

    I too have over 20 years experience as an artist, and have felt the ups and downs (mostly the downs) the whole time. While I don't have any pithy comments or advice that will sound sincere, let me just say that I can relate. Ultimately, I think it is up to you to determine whether your pursuits are worthwhile. Leaving it to other people (living or dead) to determine the worth of what you do is truly a disservice to you.

    Cheers,
    Dianne
    B & D
    Rochester, NY
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    Quiquid Latine dictum sit altum viditur

  5. #15

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    Flying Camera has it essentially correct in this observation.

    Rand is typical of extremely powerful bullshit, just like all internally self-consistent ideologies - extremely seductive.

  6. #16

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    Is painting with oils an art? The answer is:
    “It hasn’t been for a long time. “
    To be fair, there are but a few exceptions in the oil painters of today.

    Today, most modern oil paintings are debatable as to whether it is a mere hand-eye coordination skill, not a creative skill. Art requires an objective rendering of existence existing. After “academic classicism” oil painters took a dive into depravity. An oil painter that performs the basic task of painting a visual conceptualization of an abstract imaginary realm disconnected with reality is madness, not art, and not objective. This is contrary to objective reality. Whereas the selection of camera angles, lighting, lenses, film, developing, etc are calculated by the artist as the means to artistically reproduce various aspects of the given, i.e., of an existing concrete. It is the technical in art that elevates and feeds and advances of the artistic human mind in all of its creativity. Technical tools are a true draw of an Objectivist Artist because it involves his cognizant mind -and photography is a magnificent tool that can supercede that of the mere oil and camel hair artist that is nothing but a pompous moocher.

    Thank you Ayn Rand and goodbye.
    Last edited by 25asa; 10-27-2006 at 09:40 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Donald Miller View Post
    Before I begin let me say that I am expressing an opinion founded in my personal experience which is a product of education, personal investigation and direct life's experiences.
    Isn't this what we all do?

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by Peter De Smidt View Post
    Isn't this what we all do?

    Nope not even close. You might be surprised at the number of "parrots" around.
    Art is a step from what is obvious and well-known toward what is arcane and concealed.

    Visit my website at http://www.donaldmillerphotography.com

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by 25asa View Post
    Is painting with oils an art? The answer is:
    “It hasn’t been for a long time. “
    To be fair, there are but a few exceptions in the oil painters of today.

    Today, most modern oil paintings are debatable as to whether it is a mere hand-eye coordination skill, not a creative skill. Art requires an objective rendering of existence existing. After “academic classicism” oil painters took a dive into depravity. An oil painter that performs the basic task of painting a visual conceptualization of an abstract imaginary realm disconnected with reality is madness, not art, and not objective. This is contrary to objective reality. Whereas the selection of camera angles, lighting, lenses, film, developing, etc are calculated by the artist as the means to artistically reproduce various aspects of the given, i.e., of an existing concrete. It is the technical in art that elevates and feeds and advances of the artistic human mind in all of its creativity. Technical tools are a true draw of an Objectivist Artist because it involves his cognizant mind -and photography is a magnificent tool that can supercede that of the mere oil and camel hair artist that is nothing but a pompous moocher.

    Thank you Ayn Rand and goodbye.
    Hmm...so art is all about technical matter? I wonder how the "technical in art" manifests this tendency that elevates and feeds and advances the artistic human in mind in all of its (sp) creativity". Please tell me how that happens.

    Interesting judgement that you made of oil painters. I wonder how many viable and legitimate artists share your viewpoint.
    Art is a step from what is obvious and well-known toward what is arcane and concealed.

    Visit my website at http://www.donaldmillerphotography.com

  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by brYan View Post
    Food for thought from Ayn Rand,---snip--- A certain type of confusion about the relationship between scientific discoveries and art, leads to a frequently asked question: Is photography an art? The answer is: No.
    To say that something cannot be an art because it is "a scientific discovery"... ignores the fact that other accepted "fine arts" have ALL been the subjects of scientific inquiry at some point in time, and ALL reflect and utilize advances in technique dirrectly related to scientific discovery. Scuplture, Painting, Print-making... each has benefited from advances in technology that dirrectly stemmed from scientific inquiry. I would venture (the idea is NOT mine) that artists are actually some of THE FIRST to utilize new developments in science... granted, often to ends unrelated to the scientific intent, but the receptivity and eagerness of consumption of innovations is definetly pronounced within artist.


    Quote Originally Posted by brYan View Post
    It is a technical, not a creative skill.
    so is baking, so is building, so are a lot of things which have boundaries inherent to their definitions... but that does not mean that within those boundaries, creativity is not the critical ingredient which distinguished a "mechanical" rendition from the "inspired" excecution...


    Quote Originally Posted by brYan View Post
    Art requires a selective re-creation.
    I feel like you are saying everything you point a camera at will be rendered objectively when you trip the shutter... that's absurd. Photography is the ILLUSION of objectivity.... and never, even in it's most litteral excecution, actually objective.


    Quote Originally Posted by brYan View Post
    A camera cannot perform the basic task of painting: a visial conceptualization, ie., the creation of a concrete in terms of abstract essentials. The selection of camera angles, lighting, or lenses is merely a selection of the means to reproduce various aspects of the given, ie., of an existing concrete.
    This definition seems oblivious to the fact that photographs can be non-objective. Not only that, but it also seems totaly impervious to CONCEPTUAL issues that exist in and around any form of artistic expression. Also, it seems like a poor argument to make, but, if rendering things objectively is the hallmark of something that is "not-art" would also mean that photorealism in painting would fall into some other category of expression than - fine art. As an argument - it's just bluntly obtuse.


    Quote Originally Posted by brYan View Post
    There is an artistic element in some photographs, which is the result of such selectivity as the photographer can exercise,
    This seems to contradict some of the prior accertions contained in your quote.


    Quote Originally Posted by brYan View Post
    but the same artistic element (purposeful selectivity) is present in many utilitarian products:
    Again, another self contradiction, particularly note the use of the word "SAME" ... as in.. a concession that there is artistic elements present in the aforementioned subjects.

    Quote Originally Posted by brYan View Post
    but utilitarian objects cannot be classified as works of art.
    Ever heard of Duchamp's "Ready-mades", like - Bottle Rack
    http://arthist.binghamton.edu/ducham...le%20rack.html

    I really enjoyed Atlas Shrugged... not so sure of the assertions made above. :P

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