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View Poll Results: Is it okay to show Nazi memorabilia here on APUG?

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  • Yes

    40 52.63%
  • No

    20 26.32%
  • Don't care

    16 21.05%
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  1. #21
    TheFlyingCamera's Avatar
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    To address Ole's comment - I think actually historic images would be less offensive in many ways, even if they had more explicit content, because it is an historic artifact showing events as they unfolded. Depicting nazi regalia in a glorified context ( a still-life, with no negative context included ) makes it appear that the photographer was either unaware of the power of the symbolism, or agreed with it. I don't think that removing the image itself was a good thing. It should have been up to the original poster to decide to keep it or remove it, and he should have had the chance to explain his decision. If his motives were benign, let the image stay. If he was a Nazi sympathizer, then perhaps it would be appropriate for the will of the community to ask him to depart altogether and not participate again, if the community as a whole does not wish to associate with Nazis.

  2. #22

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    To me the question is more specific and relates to whether the administrator should have the right to remove an image with a potentially harmful content, such as the one posted, which was reminescent of Nazi propaganda (go read European newspapers; this kind of stuff is going on today). In this case, I maintain, yes, absolutely. Obviously, nobody knew the intention of the person who posted it, but it clearly was a potentially harmful image. As I said in one of my comments on the picture, there are ample opportunities for those who wish to be educated, including books, videos, museums, old concentration camps (you know where), etc., all of which are much more adequate than an image of questionable purpose. Regards, Markus

  3. #23

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    I have, like about 30 others I presume, an 'original' (postcard) of the image. I'll be displaying it in my collection.

  4. #24

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    Personally I would not want a copy of that image in an exchange either, but even though I do not agree with the Nazis ( I personally detest everything they stood for, my family fought against them in the war and many of them died as well. We are from Europe originally, and the stories I heard growing up are nothing short of appalling) but by removing the image from the site, how are we any different from them? Censorship is censorship no matter how you label it. As terrible as what the Nazis did, it happened and that image is clearly a reminder of the past. People need to know and be aware about tragedy so it will never happen again. I think removing the image is wrong.

    There are certain types of images myself and other do not like, but it is the right of the people to post, to allow other to see how they see things and to express their inner-self through the images they create. There are images that the original people who companied I do not like, so should we ban those images also because say 5 others and myself don’t like them?

    Do you watch the history channel? They show shows about Hitler and Nazism all the time, should those be banned as well? Schoolbooks that talk about Hitler and what he did to the Jews, should those books be banned and burned as well? What about Sally Mann, should we ban and burn her images because some do not like them? Or what about the work of Misha Gordin, should that work be banned and burned because some of the images are to graphic and remind of us certain things?

    While we are at it, lets take it one step further, to the extreme, lets also ban any religion except Christianity, after all only America exists in the world and every other country has no bearing and since America was a Christian nation in the first place only that religion should be allowed and through the rest of the world as well, who cares about others beliefs as only OURS are important and no one else’s.

    Let go one step further again; Look at Iraq for example? What right did we ( America ) have to go into a country to force a people to our way a life? Some will scream yes we did because Sadam was killing people? In whose eyes? In America we are murdering babies on a daily basis (ABORTION) and that is acceptable? so because I do not agree with abortion should it be banned? What about Korea with the nuclear testing issue? Even though I think they are extremely dangerous (my opinion again) should they be boycotted? But if memory serves me correctly, it was America that has been the only nations in the world to use a nuclear bomb against innocent civilians, not only once but also twice, remember Japan? So should the world ban America because they don’t agree with Americas Foreign Policies?


    WAIT A MINUTE; are we once again repeating the past?

    And wasn’t the image that was banned a reminder of what not to repeat?

    See how dangerous banning and censorship can become? It all starts simple and harmless but the end results are all the same. When you start banning / censoring something because you don’t like it, where does it end? Where can you draw the line? As long as 5 people don’t like it lets keep censoring.

    By the looks of it and according to the way some think around here it should be allowed and censoring and banning is totally and completely acceptable as long as they get their way, but as soon as you ban something they like WATCH OUT and watch history repeat itself once again!

    Truly a sad day on apug...

    PS> For the record I realize more is out there than America, I was just making a point to the extreme. No offense to other countries especially since my family is not from America in the first place.
    Last edited by kjsphoto; 10-28-2006 at 06:21 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  5. #25
    jovo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingCamera View Post
    Depicting nazi regalia in a glorified context ( a still-life, with no negative context included ) makes it appear that the photographer was either unaware of the power of the symbolism, or agreed with it.
    It's a measure of the distance 'civilization' has come that enslaving, crucifying, or otherwise brutally abusing those who are conquered, or destroying utterly their land and architecture (e.g. Carthage) is a modern anathema. However, to be so liberal as to allow the trappings and artifacts of one of the most morally disgusting regimes in the history of the planet to even continue to exist, is an excess of 'civility' with which I do not concur. To me, every such artifact should be legally required to be melted down and destroyed wherever it is found. Though I did not report the post (and I'm sorry I didn't), I fully support Sean's decision to expunge it from this site. I can only wish the medal, insignia, hat and other items could be so easily expunged from continued existence.
    John Voss

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  6. #26

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    Sean

    Would it be possible to "move" controversial pictures behind a secondary link, such that people would have to acknowledge the content and type of photo before viewing it. I am uncomfortable with a minority of people (those that report an image or other content) in effect controlling what the majority may see.

    It would seem (on a simplistic level) to cater for both sides - you're not censoring the image, but you are giving those of a more sensitive disposition the opportunity to not see something they may not wish to see. You could come up with some basic categories (nudity, war images, etc), and then a comment from the moderators as to the specific content.

  7. #27

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    That is one scary post Jovo.
    Technological society has succeeded in multiplying the opportunities for pleasure, but it has great difficulty in generating joy. Pope Paul VI

    So, I think the "greats" were true to their visions, once their visions no longer sucked. Ralph Barker 12/2004

  8. #28

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    Your rant is all over the place, really. Let's be specific: have you actually seen the (previously posted) image and do you know what Nazi propaganda in Germany looked and looks like?


    Quote Originally Posted by kjsphoto View Post
    Personally I would not want a copy of that image in an exchange either, but even though I do not agree with the Nazis ( I personally detest everything they stood for, my family fought against them in the war and many of them died as well. We are from Europe originally, and the stories I heard growing up are nothing short of appalling) but by removing the image from the site, how are we any different from them? Censorship is censorship no matter how you label it. As terrible as what the Nazis did, it happened and that image is clearly a reminder of the past. People need to know and be aware about tragedy so it will never happen again. I think removing the image is wrong.

    There are certain types of images myself and other do not like, but it is the right of the people to post, to allow other to see how they see things and to express their inner-self through the images they create. There are images that the original people who companied I do not like, so should we ban those images also because say 5 others and myself donít like them?

    Do you watch the history channel? They show shows about Hitler and Nazism all the time, should those be banned as well? Schoolbooks that talk about Hitler and what he did to the Jews, should those books be banned and burned as well? What about Sally Mann, should we ban and burn her images because some do not like them? Or what about the work of Misha Gordin, should that work be banned and burned because some of the images are to graphic and remind of us certain things?

    While we are at it, lets take it one step further, to the extreme, lets also ban any religion except Christianity, after all only America exists in the world and every other country has no bearing and since America was a Christian nation in the first place only that religion should be allowed and through the rest of the world as well, who cares about others beliefs as only OURS are important and no one elseís.

    Let go one step further again; Look at Iraq for example? What right did we ( America ) have to go into a country to force a people to our way a life? Some will scream yes we did because Sadam was killing people? In whose eyes? In America we are murdering babies on a daily basis (ABORTION) and that is acceptable? so because I do not agree with abortion should it be banned? What about Korea with the nuclear testing issue? Even though I think they are extremely dangerous (my opinion again) should they be boycotted? But if memory serves me correctly, it was America that has been the only nations in the world to use a nuclear bomb against innocent civilians, not only once but also twice, remember Japan? So should the world ban America because they donít agree with Americas Foreign Policies?


    WAIT A MINUTE; are we once again repeating the past?

    And wasnít the image that was banned a reminder of what not to repeat?

    See how dangerous banning and censorship can become? It all starts simple and harmless but the end results are all the same. When you start banning / censoring something because you donít like it, where does it end? Where can you draw the line? As long as 5 people donít like it lets keep censoring.

    By the looks of it and according to the way some think around here it should be allowed and censoring and banning is totally and completely acceptable as long as they get their way, but as soon as you ban something they like WATCH OUT and watch history repeat itself once again!

    Truly a sad day on apug...

    PS> For the record I realize more is out there than America, I was just making a point to the extreme. No offense to other countries especially since my family is not from America in the first place.

  9. #29

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    Yes I saw the image, a still life, hat, camera, case and medals.

    Do you understand where I am coming from? Banning / censoring anything how are we any different? Where does it end? Even though to many removing an image is a harmless gesture the ideology behind it is just frightening. It may look harmless on the outside but when you think about what just happened, it is no different than the past. It all started with one…

    I can see how easy it is in today’s society for something like Nazism to happen all over again, especially with the mindset I am seeing coming from some posters.

    Different players yes, but same sickening ideologies.

  10. #30

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    Good, then it seems that we are on the same page. In any case, in my humble opinion, it is a far-reached conclusion to say that those who wish Nazi propaganda to be banned from a public domain are no better than those who promote third Reich ideologies. In fact, this is against the law in some countries on the other side of the Atlantic. Think about it... the logic applied here is similar to saying that those who prosecute pedophiles are prone to abusing their own children.

    Maybe I did not say this clear enough: This is not about hiding or censoring historical documents that serve as reminders; this is about Nazi propanda, and thus a fundamentally different issue.

    Regards,

    Markus


    Quote Originally Posted by kjsphoto View Post
    Yes I saw the image, a still life, hat, camera, case and medals.

    Do you understand where I am coming from? Banning / censoring anything how are we any different? Where does it end? Even though to many removing an image is a harmless gesture the ideology behind it is just frightening. It may look harmless on the outside but when you think about what just happened, it is no different than the past. It all started with oneÖ

    I can see how easy it is in todayís society for something like Nazism to happen all over again, especially with the mindset I am seeing coming from some posters.

    Different players yes, but same sickening ideologies.

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