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  1. #11
    nick mulder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ray Heath View Post
    what's your point?

    most us in the 'developed' world don't really care about others

    we ocassionally do something like your posting as a way of saying 'oops i do care', but it doesn't change anything, we are still selfish and inconsiderate

    No point really, I have my own beliefs and its hard sometimes not to communicate them when trying to justify an action (like posting the question) - it certainly wasn't an attempt to make myself feel better (or at least make myself look better)

    Out of all the forums I have registered with this is the one that seems to have the most well-read pool of users, thought it would be the best place to start...
    Cleared the bowel problem, working on the consonants...

  2. #12
    nick mulder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by noblebeast View Post
    Bucky Fuller did something similar in the mid-Seventies: He found that if all the wealth in the world (liquid wealth - cash, moola, dollars, pounds, yen) were distributed evenly to every living human on the planet at the time, each would have ten million dollars.

    No mention about cameras though...

    Joe
    great - thanks, thats the sort of info i was after - just a snippet of info is enough to get me started...

    There is an abundance of books on this guy at the local Architecture school, I'll have a sniff around.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bob F. View Post
    thanks - also very helpful
    Last edited by nick mulder; 11-09-2006 at 01:34 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    Cleared the bowel problem, working on the consonants...

  3. #13
    nick mulder's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBrunner View Post
    They tried it. It doesn't work.
    Well, maybe I do have a point after all ...

    After finding my (our) 'allocation of resource' - i.e. all things equal and not destroying the planet in the process - I was going to attempt to slowly reduce myself to that level ...

    As in "I" am going to try it - not watch "them" fail
    ...which is not to say it will succeed in this fashion but at least I played my part

    I find when debating, or thinking about issues sometimes its interesting to try on different points of view... sometimes coming across like a right twat so please excuse the self-righteousness here
    Cleared the bowel problem, working on the consonants...

  4. #14
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    I think it is simple to get a gross estimate. Simply divide the world's GDP (that must be available in IMF, World bank, or something close) by the earth's population. The 6 thousand millions of them (UN must have those figures).
    I am not afraid of grain.
    http://fotodura.pt.to

  5. #15
    EdR
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    Quote Originally Posted by nick mulder View Post
    After finding my (our) 'allocation of resource' - i.e. all things equal and not destroying the planet in the process - I was going to attempt to slowly reduce myself to that level ...
    But how do you take account of public goods? Dividing the world's GDP by the population (or whatever methodology you use) to find your individual share of resource to live on is a bit of a nonsense as most of us have signed up to what the 18th century political philosophers called "the social contract". If we all decided to live on our individual "shares", who would pay for collective resources such as streetlamps, roads, police forces, civic/legal/political institutions etc?

    Also, what if someones "special needs" demanded that they needed a higher allocation to enjoy a similar standard of living to you? What if someones decision to use their allocation in a certain way created public/economic "bads" (e.g. pollution) which had an impact on the rest of us - would we "tax" their allocation?

    I am not saying that egalitarianism is bad, its just complicated

    Cheers,
    Ed

  6. #16
    Bromo33333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nick mulder View Post
    "If all the world resources were shared equally among its occupants, what would we be each left with ?"
    I know for income, you would earn appx. $1000-1500 per year (world GDP divided by number of adults).
    B & D
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    Quiquid Latine dictum sit altum viditur

  7. #17

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bromo33333 View Post
    I know for income, you would earn appx. $1000-1500 per year (world GDP divided by number of adults).
    Why not include the elders and children? They work as well in most countries.

  8. #18

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    It seems I am not alone in considering this question (a) meaningless and (b) in poor taste.

    Meaningless for many reasons, but first and foremost because the valuation of public goods and infrastructure is impossible. What is a fighter aircraft worth (new and 16 years old)? Or a still-functioning Victorian sewage system? Or the 1000-year-old donjon (castle keep) a few hundred metres from my house?

    In poor taste because of the flippant 'how many cameras would I have?' My wife and I have had friends who were genuinely poor. How about Tibetan refugees living 6000 feet up in the Himalayas, their only water a shared stand-pipe, their WC a choice between a communal latrine (no flush) and a rocky area favoured by the local monkeys for the same purpose? A friend whose daughter was withdrawn from school because she couldn't afford the few dollars a term in fees? Who didn't mention this to us because you don't beg from your friends (we'd have paid happily)? Tsering Youdon, her daughter, was withdrawn from school between the time we last saw Ama-la before her death, and the next time we saw Tsering-la.

    The simple answer is, you'd have no cameras at all, chum. Nor would any other private individual. We are all staggeringly lucky to be born into, or to have migrated to, rich societies. You can ascribe it to karma or science or capitalism, I don't care: the question, at least as phrased, should not have been asked.

    Sorry if this comes across as hopelessly puritanical but I was born in Cornwall, one of the poorest parts of the United Kingdom. A hundred years before I was born -- an eye-blink in human history -- there were apparently years when it was too expensive to buy the salt that was needed to salt the fish on which most Cornish people lived. Poverty -- true poverty, the fear of no roof over your head and not enough to eat -- has been the lot of most of mankind for most of human history. The 19th and 20th centuries saw enormous improvements. It is impossible to distribute wealth and income equally, or even fairly, but at least we can try to drag the poor up with the rich.

    Cheers,

    Roger

  9. #19
    Bromo33333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by firecracker View Post
    Why not include the elders and children? They work as well in most countries.
    Last time I checked elders are adults.

    But if you want to be picky - substitute "working persons" for adult.
    B & D
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    Quiquid Latine dictum sit altum viditur

  10. #20
    Bromo33333's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
    It seems I am not alone in considering this question (a) meaningless and (b) in poor taste.

    Meaningless for many reasons, but first and foremost because the valuation of public goods and infrastructure is impossible. What is a fighter aircraft worth (new and 16 years old)? Or a still-functioning Victorian sewage system? Or the 1000-year-old donjon (castle keep) a few hundred metres from my house?

    In poor taste because of the flippant 'how many cameras would I have?' My wife and I have had friends who were genuinely poor. How about Tibetan refugees living 6000 feet up in the Himalayas, their only water a shared stand-pipe, their WC a choice between a communal latrine (no flush) and a rocky area favoured by the local monkeys for the same purpose? A friend whose daughter was withdrawn from school because she couldn't afford the few dollars a term in fees? Who didn't mention this to us because you don't beg from your friends (we'd have paid happily)? Tsering Youdon, her daughter, was withdrawn from school between the time we last saw Ama-la before her death, and the next time we saw Tsering-la.

    The simple answer is, you'd have no cameras at all, chum. Nor would any other private individual. We are all staggeringly lucky to be born into, or to have migrated to, rich societies. You can ascribe it to karma or science or capitalism, I don't care: the question, at least as phrased, should not have been asked.

    Sorry if this comes across as hopelessly puritanical but I was born in Cornwall, one of the poorest parts of the United Kingdom. A hundred years before I was born -- an eye-blink in human history -- there were apparently years when it was too expensive to buy the salt that was needed to salt the fish on which most Cornish people lived. Poverty -- true poverty, the fear of no roof over your head and not enough to eat -- has been the lot of most of mankind for most of human history. The 19th and 20th centuries saw enormous improvements. It is impossible to distribute wealth and income equally, or even fairly, but at least we can try to drag the poor up with the rich.

    Cheers,

    Roger
    HI Roger -

    I would tend to agree - with a family with roots in Appalachia (looks like the equivalent of Cornwall and remote parts of Wales and Scotland in the UK), I know what you are talking about.

    My first instance of viewing real poverty was there (over 30 years ago) and in SE Asia about 6 years ago.

    There is very little real poverty in the US, but it is shocking to folks that have not seen it before. It sure was for me.
    B & D
    Rochester, NY
    ========================
    Quiquid Latine dictum sit altum viditur

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