Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 69,732   Posts: 1,515,277   Online: 843
      
Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 39
  1. #21
    JBrunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    6,780
    I too have been to many of the poorest places in the USA. Everywhere from some Native American reservations in the middle of nowhere, to rural "hill billy" dirt farms, to inner city slums. One thing for certain is that no "redistribution" of wealth would cure the ills that plague the residents. The economics of these areas are symptoms of personal, social, political, and governmental failings in various combinations.

  2. #22
    Bromo33333's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    669
    Quote Originally Posted by JBrunner View Post
    I too have been to many of the poorest places in the USA. Everywhere from some Native American reservations in the middle of nowhere, to rural "hill billy" dirt farms, to inner city slums. One thing for certain is that no "redistribution" of wealth would cure the ills that plague the residents. The economics of these areas are symptoms of personal, social, political, and governmental failings in various combinations.
    I believe that trying to give the poorest some sort of minimum opportunity to improve one's lot in life (I do not believe the sons and daughters of the Bush family have the same opportunities as a middle class family - so "equal opportunity" is a misnomer, I think offering good opportunities will be the best way)
    B & D
    Rochester, NY
    ========================
    Quiquid Latine dictum sit altum viditur

  3. #23
    kb244's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Grand Rapids, Mi
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    818
    Images
    63
    In the grand scheme of things, a lot more would have more would have to be done to make it where every one is living in a utopia. The problem is, we as humans are imperfect to our needs and wants. There are plenty of social differences if not let alone government allowed differences. As humans we tend to corrupt the very nature of generosity at times. Not to say that we would all be corrupt, but that a handful of people in the masses of thousands can easily shift the benefits. It sadly goes to confirm "No good deed goes unpunished".

    It helps not to try to solve the entire world's problems, but rather to take it one step at a time, you can start small and local and perhaps those small effects you make will cause those affected in turn to make their own small effort. We have to live our lives, but help when we can. While it may be sad that you cannot save everyone, its also not going to help if you put yourself into a pit of despair because of such.

    And not to sound harsh, but while there are large places of poverty abroad, and all the effort generously performed to help get them out of the rut, there are plenty of people of need in the local area.

    As far as the camera thought.

    There are always folks out there that'll "hook up" someone with a camera, or enlarger, or processing, etc if need be. Usually for those actually interested in the craft. But as far as sending a camera say overseas somewhere, theres a good chance it'll end up in a pawn shop somewhere within a week.
    -Karl Blessing
    Karl Blessing.com
    The Bokeh
    Color Film always existed. It's just the world was always black and white till recently.

  4. #24
    JBrunner's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    6,780
    Quote Originally Posted by Bromo33333 View Post
    I believe that trying to give the poorest some sort of minimum opportunity to improve one's lot in life (I do not believe the sons and daughters of the Bush family have the same opportunities as a middle class family - so "equal opportunity" is a misnomer, I think offering good opportunities will be the best way)
    I would not disagree. The problem is what kind of opportunity, and what to do when it is not taken? Having money is a great precursor to having more money, but many of those who have none, have no idea how to handle it if they get some. The same goes for opportunity.

    It is a deep and complex problem that concerns us all, and behooves all to get involved.

    Here in america there are now huge numbers of people of all classes, who have no idea what is even important or necessary for survival and advancement. How did we manage to convince someone that can't pay their rent, that they need $250 tennis shoes? How did we convince someone that working around the clock to pay for an $80,000 car was more important than having a $10,000 car that is functional, and spending time on community and family?

  5. #25
    Christopher Nisperos's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    378
    Quote Originally Posted by copake_ham View Post
    You ever share a camera? Damned thing comes back with scratches and dents and fingerprints on the lenses!
    ...OR WORSE Amen! ... and the same problem with photography books.

    It took me several unfortunate experiences to learn this. I went from being a 'nice guy' to being called 'selfish'. But it has happened to my equipment and books 100% of the time I've lent them out, so now ---unless it's something I really don't care too much about-- no way. The downside is . . . now, I don't borrow stuff either. It wouldn't be fair, considering my 'no loan' policy.

    I call this, "rental mentality". It ain't mine so I don't care. Reminds me of the comedian who used to do abit about his dad threatening him with, "Why, I'll beat you like a rented mule!"

    Regarding books --since I collect nice "coffee table"" editions of photography books ('collect' means that I receive them as Christmas gifts after giving pointed hints!) -- whenever someone wants to "thumb-through" one of these books, I've found it useful to give a couple of minutes of instructions in book handling...ridiculous as it may seem. I have to be careful not to insult the person, as everyone assumes they already know how to do this (probably the same people who assume that anyone can be a photographer!).

    This policy came out of an incident where I handed a supposedly book-knowledgeble friend my copy of Adam's "Yosemite and the Range of Light".
    I ended-up with a chocolate coated fingerprint on one of the glossy white pages and cringed as he turned pages at the top-center part of the book, almost ripping the pages. I finally took the book out of his hands and tried to diplomatically show him the book myself, as when you read to a child. He was miffed and accused me of being "sensitive", but I don't give a hoot. Some people don't seem to know the difference between a good quality artbook and the daily newspaper!

    "Share" equipment? No more than I would share my toothbrush! Better to give equipment. That's what I've done with certain beginners.

    .

  6. #26
    Bromo33333's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2006
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    669
    Quote Originally Posted by JBrunner View Post
    Here in america there are now huge numbers of people of all classes, who have no idea what is even important or necessary for survival and advancement. How did we manage to convince someone that can't pay their rent, that they need $250 tennis shoes? How did we convince someone that working around the clock to pay for an $80,000 car was more important than having a $10,000 car that is functional, and spending time on community and family?
    That is a good point - when luxuries are mistaken for requirements, ruinous spending ensues.

    This is not recent, the Founding Fathers, save a couple, all died with huge debts, and wallowing in Luxury. Thomas Jefferson being the most profligate - his entire estate had to be liquidated, and a couple of lenders ended up bankrupt. By freeing his slaves, he saved them from being re-sold.

    While it is easy to blame marketing, I think it all boils down to being personally responsible for your spending. It does not take a great leap of education to know you have to pay back loans, and that you have to live within your means. I would agree, though, most people don't want to hear that, so ignore it.
    B & D
    Rochester, NY
    ========================
    Quiquid Latine dictum sit altum viditur

  7. #27
    kb244's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2005
    Location
    Grand Rapids, Mi
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    818
    Images
    63
    Chris I know all bout the whole camera borrow thing, I hardly let my wife handle the cameras, and she does a hell of a lot better job taking care of them if she used them than some 'professionals' I know.

    My biggest issues are.

    1) Fingerprints somehow getting on the front of the lens "I don't remember touching the lens..."
    2) People who don't understand that "Apply Necessary Force" does not apply to cameras.
    3) When viewing a print they seem to have to touch every inch of it.

    I remember my neighbor needed a camera, I cured that problem rather quickly by just giving him my Minolta X-370 with a 50mm f/1.7 and 200mm f/4. Figured I only paid 2$ for the setup, and I shoot more canon than anything, and he could use the camera more than I could since he's got kids, and I'm sure he'd want to capture their memories more than I would take a picture of an insect with the number of cameras I have. It saves the hassle of worrying bout when and how you'll get your stuff back. :P Not everyone is at the luxury of doing that.
    -Karl Blessing
    Karl Blessing.com
    The Bokeh
    Color Film always existed. It's just the world was always black and white till recently.

  8. #28
    nick mulder's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2005
    Shooter
    8x10 Format
    Posts
    1,204
    Images
    14
    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
    It seems I am not alone in considering this question (a) meaningless and (b) in poor taste.

    Meaningless for many reasons, but first and foremost because the valuation of public goods and infrastructure is impossible. What is a fighter aircraft worth (new and 16 years old)? Or a still-functioning Victorian sewage system? Or the 1000-year-old donjon (castle keep) a few hundred metres from my house?

    In poor taste because of the flippant 'how many cameras would I have?' My wife and I have had friends who were genuinely poor. How about Tibetan refugees living 6000 feet up in the Himalayas, their only water a shared stand-pipe, their WC a choice between a communal latrine (no flush) and a rocky area favoured by the local monkeys for the same purpose? A friend whose daughter was withdrawn from school because she couldn't afford the few dollars a term in fees? Who didn't mention this to us because you don't beg from your friends (we'd have paid happily)? Tsering Youdon, her daughter, was withdrawn from school between the time we last saw Ama-la before her death, and the next time we saw Tsering-la.

    The simple answer is, you'd have no cameras at all, chum. Nor would any other private individual. We are all staggeringly lucky to be born into, or to have migrated to, rich societies. You can ascribe it to karma or science or capitalism, I don't care: the question, at least as phrased, should not have been asked.

    Sorry if this comes across as hopelessly puritanical but I was born in Cornwall, one of the poorest parts of the United Kingdom. A hundred years before I was born -- an eye-blink in human history -- there were apparently years when it was too expensive to buy the salt that was needed to salt the fish on which most Cornish people lived. Poverty -- true poverty, the fear of no roof over your head and not enough to eat -- has been the lot of most of mankind for most of human history. The 19th and 20th centuries saw enormous improvements. It is impossible to distribute wealth and income equally, or even fairly, but at least we can try to drag the poor up with the rich.

    Cheers,

    Roger

    All I'll say is that the outcome might be meaningless but the attempt nonetheless not ...

    My addition of 'cameras' into the title was purely a marketing ploy to get people interested in the question, this is a photographers forum and I imagine many of us would be rather hesitant to part with them... Think of them in this sense purely as generic chunks of resource - 'energon cubes' if you will - passably more useful than a wad of cash out in the anarchic woods/large rabid city ...

    I apologize for anyone I have offended - I suggest that everyone here, offended or not, visit :

    http://www.globalrichlist.com/

    It will put most bent noses back in place

    Its from the first of two forum entries that answered my original query...
    Cleared the bowel problem, working on the consonants...

  9. #29

    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    Northern Aquitaine
    Shooter
    35mm RF
    Posts
    4,913
    Quote Originally Posted by nick mulder View Post
    All I'll say is that the outcome might be meaningless but the attempt nonetheless not ...

    My addition of 'cameras' into the title was purely a marketing ploy to get people interested in the question, this is a photographers forum and I imagine many of us would be rather hesitant to part with them... Think of them in this sense purely as generic chunks of resource - 'energon cubes' if you will - passably more useful than a wad of cash out in the anarchic woods/large rabid city ...

    I apologize for anyone I have offended - I suggest that everyone here, offended or not, visit :

    http://www.globalrichlist.com/

    It will put most bent noses back in place

    Its from the first of two forum entries that answered my original query...
    Dear Nick,

    My apologies -- I guess it worked as a 'marketing strategy'. But my point about valuing public (and indeed many private) goods still remains.

    Cheers,

    R.

  10. #30
    copake_ham's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    NYC or Copake or Tucson
    Shooter
    35mm
    Posts
    4,092
    Images
    56
    Quote Originally Posted by Bromo33333 View Post
    I believe that trying to give the poorest some sort of minimum opportunity to improve one's lot in life (I do not believe the sons and daughters of the Bush family have the same opportunities as a middle class family - so "equal opportunity" is a misnomer, I think offering good opportunities will be the best way)
    Brent,

    It is well known that "W" entered Yale as a result of a special affirmative action program known as "Legacy Admissions"!

Page 3 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin