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  1. #91
    MurrayMinchin's Avatar
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    Just curious...how many of you following this thread, and because of it, have checked out Brian's and Bill's websites for the first time? Are we in the middle of a marketing strategy?

    Murray
    _________________________________________
    Note to self: Turn your negatives into positives.

  2. #92
    billschwab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Early Riser View Post
    If you chose to read my story about making my move, and it would be great if you told us yours..
    That's just it Brian. There was no "move". It has been my life. You, anyone else and most importantly I do not have the kind of time to hear me stroke my own ego telling you of all the trials and tribulations. I could sit here and drop names and accomplishments till the pigs start to fly and it isn't going to do anything but make me feel good about myself and make others think I am a self indulgent creep. Just my opinion.

    Bill

  3. #93
    billschwab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MurrayMinchin View Post
    Are we in the middle of a marketing strategy?
    Yeah, one that's making us both look like jerks!

    I will now apologize to all involved for my part in hijacking this thread. I don't know what I can possibly add to what I have said. I have been very candid, put forth my numbers and more in the desire to help... not blow my own horn.

    As my boy and I are fond of yelling back and forth... Peace! Out!

    Bill

  4. #94

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    Quote Originally Posted by billschwab View Post
    I think we've both done that ad nauseum Brian. I can't speak for you, but I'll leave room for others.

    Good grief Brian, dream on. This has now gotten humorous. I fear there is a big wake-up call coming your way if you think this.

    Brian... you asked before if I had some problem with you? To be completely honest... Yes. It is the fact that you think you can treat this like some factory job, put in the time and mass a body of work in a few years that will sustain you. What about growth? What about developing further? That is what an artist does. Did Van Gogh sit down and paint 30 Starry Nights, Crows Over a Wheatfield, etc. and then sit back and live off his riches? Give me a break.

    Bill

    Bill, does my work look like a factory put it out? Maybe you consider the fact that I work at this 330 days a year to be factory like, I consider it commitment. I shoot, process, print, spot, mat and mount every print myself, by hand. And I do all that during the 7 months a year that I am not on the road shooting.

    Maybe my commitment to my work is too factory like for you. As an example, I have rarely printed in the past 1 1/2 years because I was not happy with the qualities of the photo paper out there. There was a defect that made it impossible for me to print images I had printed before. A mottle affect which I wrote about here in APUG and which due to my style becomes very apparent. I bought and tested every brand of paper and none could work for me. To this day I am still receiving test batches straight from Ilfords labs and it has gotten better. (did people wonder why last month I posted more than 2 dozen new images from NEGATIVE scans and not print scans). Bill, would you stop printing right after spending a couple hundred thousand building a 1000 foot addition to your house for a new darkroom and studio if the paper didn't live up to your standards? Or would you just roll on and produce work that you felt was below your standards? I chose to stop, work with Ilford and to find alternate means to produce work at a quality level I require.

    So for the last 1 1/2 years while I have still travelled widely and shot extensively, I have chosen to not produce any new prints for sale. All of my prints out there are printed previously and I'm running out. I have chosen to not have ANY shows for 2006 because I felt the print paper would not allow me to print work at a level that I wanted. In the meantime I still have the same bills to pay, I still sunk substanial amounts of money into travel and equipment. If I had a factory mentality I'd be getting "product" out there because "cash flow" is required. Instead I have taken a huge financial hit in order to preserve a quality level in my work that I felt took priority over my finances.

    As for "growth" and developing further, I'm only doing this full time for 3-4 years. Look at the images "Wrong Way", "Clothesline" , "Bonneville", "refinery" and compare them to the work I did just 3 years prior. They're a different direction. I like and respect your work Bill, but I see little change or growth from the latest work of yours to work you did a decade ago. All I see is refinement and there's nothing wrong with that.

    As for Van Gogh, yeah he did great work, right up until the time he blew his brains out.
    Last edited by Early Riser; 12-28-2006 at 12:43 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  5. #95
    billschwab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Early Riser View Post
    Bill, does my work look like a factory put it out?
    Man... it would have been great to avoid this, but you brought it up. To be quite honest and blunt, yes. But that is nothing more than an opinion. Like your feeling of ULF shooters in general. Beautiful too as I have said many times. Mine is no better and I do not harbor any belief that it is better than anyone's who is hitting their stride for that matter. That is where the luck comes in. I have a lot to learn and a long, long way to grow. As for new directions? Maybe it is best to refine instead of change for change's sake. I am not impressed by this. Just that thought makes it seem like a factory job. I have a lot of time left. There is no hurry.

    I'm out of this now Brian and am going to use the ignore function. I mean no disrespect, but I am trying to keep my nose clean around here and it won't serve anyone well if we continue this.

    Sorry again all!

    Bill

  6. #96

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    Bill, I don't take it personally. I respect you and your work. It's all opinions. I do think though that our airing our different points of view may serve some, at least to spark more questions. There are many paths in the arts, one that fails for one may work for another. The journey and where you arrive at are both important.

  7. #97
    MikeSeb's Avatar
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    congrats

    Bill and Brian, you're both to be congratulated on the dignified way you've conducted yourselves here. Disagreeing vigorously, stating points of view, but resisting the all-too-common online temptation--facilitated by the strange familiarity and aloofness engendered by the online experience--to resort to infantile name calling.

    One of the best online discussions I've enjoyed in some time.
    Michael Sebastian
    Website | Blog

  8. #98
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    Now that BS vs. ER is done, my thoughts.

    Ebay= auction site (people want bargains, yet does offer visibility)

    If showing on ebay, it could counter any other venues (gallery, direct marketing, etc) unless pricing is exactly the same.

    If your sole income comes from your work, then sell whenever and however you can. Be sure to structure price points accordingly. I would be seriously pissed if I bought a print from someone for $200 (i.e), either direct or gallery, then saw the same damn thing on ebay for $59.00 or whatever.

    And "making a living" is a relevant term to one's real needs as to what sort of income they need to generate. What constitutes "a living" for one could fall well short of another's needs.

    Tier pricing...me thinks this is an awful idea. I'd rather sell 10 prints at $200 rather than 4 or 5, then hope someone feels numbers 5-10, 11-14, etc. are worth 20-100% more just because there's only yeah many left. This works when you have a universally recognized name and mayhaps only three (i.e) prints remain of a particular print. Just my opinion and not based on real data.

    I would suggest that anyone serious about selling for living, pay/hire for a consultant from a marketing agency and explore the various venues and options available.
    Marketing takes money but if it is your goal to make it successful, then you need to spend it to make it. That means an investment of time too.

    When I'm ready to offer my work, it will be through alternative venues that I've already explored and dome some research on, and at this time it won't include ebay. If it eventually does, and say I am also repped by a gallery, then the pricing will be equal. With galleries you'll have to take a hit on profit with their commission, but there are benefits.

    Bottom line, do the research.
    Matt's Photo Site
    "I invent nothing, I rediscover". Auguste Rodin

  9. #99
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    This is becoming like a good book and hard to put down.

    I have much respect for the many views expressed, often with passion representing the work behind the contributions. I'd like to echo Michael's observation of the [strong] views expressed in a dignified way. Feels like I'm getting to know some of you here.

    Many have been American contributions (but not all).... surely these issues apply elsewhere....?

  10. #100
    Robert Brummitt's Avatar
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    This is a good book! A lesson taught and shared! I would like to see a completed paper of this thread. I'm think Sean should to offer it as a way for Apug to get some funds. Pay a buck or more and get a down load file. If Sean did that I would tell all my membership to buy it! I would also ask students of all the arts to read it.
    Thank you all. Specially to Bill and Brian.
    "We are what we repeatedly do. Excellence, then, is not an act but a habit"
    Aristotle



 

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