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  1. #11
    gr82bart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingCamera View Post
    unless they are going to a publisher of other than faultless repute (porn mag).
    LMAO! This was too funny, Scott. I nearly choked.

    Regards, Art.
    Visit my website at www.ArtLiem.com
    or my online portfolios at APUG and ModelMayhem

  2. #12
    George Papantoniou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingCamera View Post
    Frankly, unless the model explicitly requests a fee, I would try and offer a TFP/TFCD deal first. Most nude work is HIGHLY speculative on your part - nudes are a tough sell in the marketplace, unless they are going to a publisher of other than faultless repute (porn mag). You are likely to spend a fair chunk of time shooting, souping and printing these photos, and go a much longer stretch of time trying to sell them before you ever recoup a penny on your investment. The worst that can happen if you offer a TFP deal is that she says "no". I usually make it a combination free lunch/cash gratuity ($50 or so)/TFP deal, and most folks are happy with that. I also tend to use amateur models, so most of them are quite happy to accept prints and food. Another good reason for working with amateurs - they often don't have preconceived ideas about how to pose, so you can direct them better.
    Thank you for the sound advice, Scott... the problem here in Greece is that because of the idiotic morals of the locals, nude posing for artistic work (photography especially) is generaly considered as something done by people who are "easy", "Promiscuous", or just "sluts" (for women)... most people think that female models are really Call-Girls that use the modelling label just for a cover for their true profession. This sounds ridiculous, I know, but this is how things are down here. The TV and some stupid journalists have helped this belief to get established in the collective consciousness (showing moronic reportages about model agencies who act also as brothels or something).

    The result is that almost noone will be willing to do that as a favour for a friend and there are very few amateur models... most of the pro models working for agencies will refuse to do nude work and the few who will do it will charge a fortune for it.
    I am not hoping that I'll sell the prints (I am not doing this in order to earn money) so I know I will finance this operation...

    The news is that I got a call from the girl we're talkng about with a proposition to do the whole job (the whole project) for 1500 euros (!!!). I told her that this is not right, because I might use her 5 times and I might use her 20. So, this "whole job" deal might prove to be unsatisfactory for me or for her... Told her that I'll make an offer for a 4-hour sitting and see if she likes it.

    I heard that models working for the Greek Art Academy are paid something like 5-6 euros per hour. Of course, they are not being photographed.

    Since hourly rates for services are much lower here in Greece than in nortern Euro countries, I am thinking about offering a 25 euro/hour rate (100 euro for 4 hours) plus food, drinks and whatever plus a few pictures after the project is finished... Does this sound fair ?

  3. #13
    Ole
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    George, I think that sounds fair. It's about half of what I paid last time; and since Norwegian wages (and cost of everything) are among the highest in the world that seems about right.

    BTW, that model was an experienced art academy model - I swear she didn't even breathe except when I told her to! Holding a pose for less than half an hour was entirely new to her.
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  4. #14
    George Papantoniou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ole View Post
    George, I think that sounds fair. It's about half of what I paid last time; and since Norwegian wages (and cost of everything) are among the highest in the world that seems about right.

    BTW, that model was an experienced art academy model - I swear she didn't even breathe except when I told her to! Holding a pose for less than half an hour was entirely new to her.
    Cousin Ole, I would think about asking her to come and pose for me, but if I have to pay for the travel expenses PLUS the Norwegian hourly rates, I would go bankrupt !! :o

  5. #15

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    How about tourists? Finding under the table work in Greece is the great dream for a lot of young people.

  6. #16

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    Quote Originally Posted by laverdure View Post
    How about tourists? Finding under the table work in Greece is the great dream for a lot of young people.
    This could be the clincher... Can you find cheap accommodation for attractive young women who are willing to remove their kit in order to model for a (pretty-much-guaranteed) non-sex-maniac?

    I am not kidding. Tell 'em they can register with the police when they arrive (I don't remember -- as far as I recall you have tourist police in Greece?) and that they get subsidized accommodation plus for successful applicants a guaranteed X euros/hr for a guaranteed minimum X hours/week, and you should have certain Northern Europeans queueing.

    Cheers,

    R.

  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingCamera View Post
    Frankly, unless the model explicitly requests a fee, I would try and offer a TFP/TFCD deal first.
    I part company with Scott here. I always offer compensation for my subjects, whether they consider themselves models or not. The person in front of my camera is the most important part of my photography. She works. She deserves to be paid. I will make exceptions for various reasons. But my presumption, when I photograph someone, and (important) I am asking for a signed general release so that I can use the photograph for my own purposes, is that I am paying the person who is in front of my camera. I will not shoot TFP, even if the person proposes it.

    I do not pay much -- usually something between $60 and $120, plus the use of selected images from the shoot. Models will not uncommonly ask for $100 to $150 an hour. I do not match those rates but my sense of equity drives me to pay something for the work people do for me.

    Sanders

  8. #18
    Ole
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    I agree with Sanders on this.

    Especially now that most "photographers" shoot digital and offer a CD full of unedited pictures, the TFP is essentially dead. I much prefer to pay, that way there is no problem if I screw up the developing and not a single picture comes out.
    -- Ole Tjugen, Luddite Elitist
    Norway

  9. #19
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    Sanders- I did mention later that I do offer some cash remuneration as well, but the majority of the compensation is in prints of the work. When my work sells, it goes for a minimum of $250. I give at least two finished, signed prints, and unless we've shot acres of film, I normally print whatever the model chooses for them, even if it is eight or ten images. I do draw a line for my own time and expense - I have had models before ask me for a print of virtually EVERYTHING we shot when I was shooting 35mm - on one shoot I took five rolls of 36 exposures. No way, bub. I also limit what I give for control of my images - sometimes models choose images that I would NEVER print, and I don't want copies of work that I don't plan to use floating around out there.

  10. #20
    George Papantoniou's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
    This could be the clincher... Can you find cheap accommodation for attractive young women who are willing to remove their kit in order to model for a (pretty-much-guaranteed) non-sex-maniac?

    I am not kidding. Tell 'em they can register with the police when they arrive (I don't remember -- as far as I recall you have tourist police in Greece?) and that they get subsidized accommodation plus for successful applicants a guaranteed X euros/hr for a guaranteed minimum X hours/week, and you should have certain Northern Europeans queueing.

    Cheers,

    R.
    Hi Roger... not a bad idea... do you know how I would do the casting for this operation ? I mean, should I place an ad in the Sunday Times of the Frankfurter Allgemeine or Le Monde saying "Nude Photo Models sought in Greece, free bed & breakfast in Athens in exchange" or something like that, then ask for some photos of them to ensure that they're suitable for the job ? I am afraid that it'll be dificult to choose the right ones (the ones that 1. will have the looks I am looking for, 2. will be cooperative during the job 3. wil be nice persons that will not cause problems, since I'll have to have them staying in my place 4. people that I can be sure that THEY will not be dangerous for me and my family. They certainly have to be confident that I'll not harm them, too, and I don't know how they could be so sure of that.

    On the other hand, if I can have a recommendation from someone I know, things could be different...

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