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  1. #1
    George Papantoniou's Avatar
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    Model recompense

    I finally (after months of unrewarded searching) found someone that has agreeded to pose for the nudes I wanted to do (and have borrowed my cousin Ole's plate holders for) on early 20th century glass plates.

    It's a girl who has done some semi-amateur modelling and has the physical appearance that I was seeking (almost)... after what I have seen in a few examples she has in her book.

    The thing is, she does not really know how much she should get paid for this job (never worked for an artistic project) and I am not sure how much I should pay for her work.

    So, I am asking the ones who have done this and the ones who are frequently doing it (photographing models for nude artistic photography): how much do you pay for a 4-hour sitting to a model ?

    It is evident that the pictures will not be used for commercial purposes, except in the context of an artistic commercial exchange (selling of prints). I also have the intention (and have told her so) to offer her a series of prints (numbered, hand printed on archival materials - silver or alt-process). I also have the intention to use the same girl some other time too, for different projects and I have told her so, so she can understand that this - professional - relationship can be a lasting one (if everything goes well with the first shooting).

    If you tell me how much you pay for this kind of job, please state the country where you live because I will have to convert the amount to the Greek standards (the price of services in different countries varies depending on the mean salary etc etc)...

  2. #2
    gr82bart's Avatar
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    Hi George,

    First, if she has a nude rate than I would pay her rate since you sought her ought and it is her look that you desire in your images. Here in the US, verified experienced nude models get anywhere from $100-150 per hour. (In Canada the rate is substantially lower at around $50-100 CAD per hour) These rates are highly variable - her look, her experience, type of project, your images as value to her portfolio, etc... contribute to the rate.

    Now that being said, you could try to negotiate a "time for print/CD" trade, but I don't know the model and how you found her. Generally I have provided a few images on a CD (usually 4-8 for a 4 hour shoot) and only files for the web. I scan them hi-res and convert them to web quality only after I PS them. Additionally, I've given her 2-4 prints for her portfolio. No matter what, I always pay for her travel, pay for the MUA and have food/drink during the shoot.

    Plus I'd give her usage unrestricted rights. Here in the US, many models want the images to use for magazine submissions, contest and the like. It's a pain the ass for her to call each time and the fact is the models never ask permission anyway, so why play a charade and just give outright usage rights right off the bat.

    You should get a unrestricted release.

    Regards, Art.
    Visit my website at www.ArtLiem.com
    or my online portfolios at APUG and ModelMayhem

  3. #3

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    How much should you pay? It depends on a lot of factors. I have done quite a few nude shoots and paid using TFP "Time For Prints", where the model poses in exchange for a specified number of finished prints from the session. A variation on this is TFCD, "Time For CD" where the images are provided to the model on a CD or DVD.

    I have also paid models. I actually prefer to pay a model with money instead of prints because once the shoot is over, my obligations to the model are over. As an aside, I generally will still give them a few prints, even though I am not required to.

    The going rate for experienced models in the rural midwest USA is between $50 and $75 an hour for a four hour shoot. Some very experienced models charge up to $150 an hour, but I have never paid that much. I live 100 km from the nearest city of any size, so I will normally pay $25 an hour for travel expenses.

    I generally pay a little bit above the norm for a model that I want to work with several times. They appreciate the extra money and are willing to work around their schedules to accomodate me.

    What do models with similar experience to the one you are hiring charge in your area? That seems like a good place to start.

    I also generally provide lunch or dinner and sodas for the models. They go get the meal while I change film in the holders.

    I use a general release, which I have modified slightly. I added a paragraph which actually limits my use of the photos, but which the models really like. I state that the photos are intended for private sales, galleries, exhibitions, fine art magazine an books and are not appropriate for and will not be used for adult/pornographic websites or magazines. I also make it clear to the models what type of photographs I will be taking and what type I will not be taking. Many models will pose for nudes, but don't want to do pornography. The line between nudes and pornography is often fuzzy, so I discuss the limits with the model before we shoot. I also tell the model that if she is ever uncomfortable about a pose, she should say something and we will discuss it.

    I work with most models more than once. By being up front, honest and professional with them, they are very willing to pose several times. I also find that I get my best images from later sessions, once we have established a good working relatioship and are relaxed working together.

  4. #4

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    Dear Allen,

    Thanks for a thoughtful, reasoned and experienced analysis.

    Cheers,

    R.

  5. #5
    George Papantoniou's Avatar
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    Art and Allen, thank you for your educational responses... here in Greece the model release is not so frequently used, although I'll do it because I want to be on the safe side.

    Is there anyone in a European country that can chime in with additional info and some Euro model rates ? I mean, I can convert US or CAN $ to euros, but the price paid for services is so different on the two sides of the ocean...

  6. #6

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    You might look at modeling web sites to get an idea of model rates in Europe. I use Model Mayhem and Onemodelplace here in the US. I just checked and both list models in Greece. Check both the model listings and photographer listings to see if any provide hourly rates. Just be aware that most models who list their rates in their ports are normally on the high side.

    There are probably Europe specific sites as well.

  7. #7
    TheFlyingCamera's Avatar
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    Frankly, unless the model explicitly requests a fee, I would try and offer a TFP/TFCD deal first. Most nude work is HIGHLY speculative on your part - nudes are a tough sell in the marketplace, unless they are going to a publisher of other than faultless repute (porn mag). You are likely to spend a fair chunk of time shooting, souping and printing these photos, and go a much longer stretch of time trying to sell them before you ever recoup a penny on your investment. The worst that can happen if you offer a TFP deal is that she says "no". I usually make it a combination free lunch/cash gratuity ($50 or so)/TFP deal, and most folks are happy with that. I also tend to use amateur models, so most of them are quite happy to accept prints and food. Another good reason for working with amateurs - they often don't have preconceived ideas about how to pose, so you can direct them better.

  8. #8

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingCamera View Post
    ... unless they are going to a publisher of other than faultless repute (porn mag)...
    Sublimely elegant phraseology!

    Cheers,

    R.

  9. #9
    arigram's Avatar
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    Hey George, senda photo of her my way. If I like her, I might think about borrowing her...
    aristotelis grammatikakis
    www.arigram.gr
    Real photographs, created in camera, 100% organic,
    no digital additives and shit




  10. #10

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    I remember German Color-Foto magazine had on theire classified pages small ads for modeling, and you can see there how much models charge for posing. Also same types of ads were in British Practical Photography magazine. I belive Color-Foto is still alive, I am not sure for Practical Photography. As I can remember in Color-Foto models charged about 50-100 EURO per hour just for posing and even more if model is someone like former page 3/Playboy playmate model and like that.

    Then, there are ads where models also, with herself, provide studio, lighting, and even camera, and also person who assists if photographer is beginner. Those are practically models agencies (not fashion models agencies, don't confuse those two type of models). Prices for that kind of service started about 300 EURO for hour or two or even for 4 hours (it was long time ago, not sure if remember correctly). So, if you can get some issue of Color-Foto (best if you can find issues about 3-5 years old and older, I belive in recent years I didn't see those ads), that will give you approximate prices for nude posing in Germany for example.

    In British magazines same amount (50 to 300) but not EUROS, they charged in GBP, so in britain prices are much higher than in Germany.

    I would pay to my model atleast standard average daily sallary in my country, but usually I would double that.

    For example, if average daily sallary in Greece is let say 15 EUROS, pay her 30EUROS, give her few prints (let say 5) of hers choice, and make honest and fair agreement (signed model release) with wihch you and she will be happy. Also, if you manage to sell prints, offer her 10% from every print you sell.

    Of course, you provide food and drink (refreshment, not her to get drunk ), and you can pay her expences of hers traveling to place of photographing, she should provide make up and hair style (if you need particular make up or hair style).

    My first model for nude photography posed for free, she got all prints she wanted (10 prints), I provided food and drink, she traveled by hers expences.

    For example, here is one German web site with models: flashmodels.de You need to know German language... There you can ask model you like how much she charge for nude posing, and use that as starting point. Check set-cards of models, not every one is ready for nude posing, it is written what model do what kind of posing

    P. S. I talk so much about situation in Germany because Germany is "reference point" for most Europeans, especially East and South Europeans...
    Last edited by haris; 04-02-2007 at 01:11 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    Bosnia... You don't have to be crazy to live here, but it helps...
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