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  1. #21
    gr82bart's Avatar
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    Hmmm ... just realized something. Here we go again. Us men ('cept Suzanne)discussing the merits of nude images of women ... Drats, I can't believe I fell for it.

    Regards, Art (Where's my list of cyclical threads to avoid?)
    Visit my website at www.ArtLiem.com
    or my online portfolios at APUG and ModelMayhem

  2. #22
    Rolleiflexible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gr82bart View Post
    Hmmm ... just realized something. Here we go again. Us men ('cept Suzanne) discussing the merits of nude images of women ... Drats, I can't believe I fell for it.
    Art! I posted a naked guy this morning. Do we reserve our concern only for women? :-D

  3. #23
    eddym's Avatar
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    I did a nude model shoot a few years ago, and we discussed the usage in detail at the time. It was a tfp shoot, at her request, and I had her sign a model release. I specifically asked for permission to post the photos on the internet, and she (and her husband) were fine with that.
    The shoot was excellent, and all concerned were happy with the results. I posted some of the shots on a website (not my personal site) and labelled each image as "Lucy #1,2,3, etc." (Lucy is not her real name, but i used her real name). A few weeks later she emailed me and asked me to change her name on the images (but not to take them down). Apparently her mother had Googled her name and found the images, and was a bit shocked. She did not realize that they would be so "easily available." (Thanks, Google!)
    So I left them up, but changed the titles to her initials, "LP#1, 2, etc." She was happy.
    About a year later she emailed me and said that her mother was OK with the pictures now, and I was welcome to post them anywhere I wanted to, with her name or not.
    I left them as they were. By the way, they ordered a 20x24 print of one to hang over their mantle in their home.
    Eddy McDonald
    www.fotoartes.com
    Eschew defenestration!

  4. #24
    Rolleiflexible's Avatar
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    Art! (I seem to put exclamation marks after your name, don't I?) I just realized you're up the road in CT. Can I borrow Kinga, please? Sanders

  5. #25
    gr82bart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanders McNew View Post
    Can I borrow Kinga, please? Sanders
    Sanders!

    No! Kinga's in Canada!

    Regards, Art!
    Visit my website at www.ArtLiem.com
    or my online portfolios at APUG and ModelMayhem

  6. #26
    gr82bart's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sanders McNew View Post
    I posted a naked guy this morning.
    What are you - a masochist? The last guy that posted an image of nude guy ... ask him yourself - Scott? Want to update Sanders? He's in for a ride, eh? Better not be any penises hanging around.

    Regards, Art. (Hmmm ... with you I seem to use a lot of question marks)
    Last edited by gr82bart; 04-11-2007 at 05:22 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    Visit my website at www.ArtLiem.com
    or my online portfolios at APUG and ModelMayhem

  7. #27
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    I've wrestled with this before. That is the motivation for my Article detailing a "Limited" Model Release - the best way I could think of to establish confidence that I would never cause grief to the model.

    Possibly it could be revisited...? Select "Custom Model Release".
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  8. #28
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    I think the problem that you seem to be addressing Bill is the one of exposure of nudes to people who want to see them from a purient point of view. There will always be these people in the world, but why would that stop you from doing what you are doing? I have posted nudes before and been emailed things like "do you have a high res full frontal image of.....". There are nudes on my website (watch my hitcounter go up after that one!) I personally abhore the sexualization of women. It occurred to me quite a long time ago that people for the most part equate identity and sexuality. My response to this is to eliminate identity from the form. By doing so most people will see the image as a beautiful form rather than a "hot chic". There will always be the pervs that will ask you for the image though. There is nothing you can do about that, so don't bury your head in the sand. My quibble with most male photographers that shoot nudes is it seems to me that they are trying to compensate for insecurities by hiding behind their cameras, and I get the feeling that they are trying to "collect" women's images to make themselves more of a man. Most of them also hide behind the moniker of "art" in order to do this. I have met so many photographers at all levels in my life that I feel confident enough to say this. For the record in my years of photography I have very rarely shot nudes and have turned down way more women that have asked me than I have actually shot.

    Bill, uou have a uncommon gift to make beautiful images. Make them. Don't worry about the "perverts" out there. Worry about the people who can and will appreciate what you do for the beauty in it. I know I do.

    Regards,

    Patrick

  9. #29
    Rolleiflexible's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by patrickjames View Post
    I personally abhore the sexualization of women. It occurred to me quite a long time ago that people for the most part equate identity and sexuality. My response to this is to eliminate identity from the form. By doing so most people will see the image as a beautiful form rather than a "hot chic".
    Patrick, I had to laugh when I read your post. We have completely different sensibilities, you and I. You abhor the sexualization of women, and you find people equate identity with sexuality, so you eliminate identity to avoid sexuality. Me, I abhor the objectification of people -- to me, the elimination of identity from the form turns a person into an object. I work hard to put identity foremost in my work. Now I understand how that bothers you.

    I look at a "bodyscape" (for lack of a better word) and I don't see "beautiful form," as you do. I see "decapitated person." I photograph my nude portraits to explore the person in the frame. Yet I gather you see (or fear others will see) "hot chick."

    No wonder we talk past each other in these threads.

    Sanders

  10. #30
    billschwab's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copake_ham View Post
    What I'd like to know, Bill, is why you decided to upload a 30 year old photo to The Gallery?
    George, It came when I was going through old negatives and printing them in platinum. As you said, I found it exciting to find an old image... one that had never been printed from my days in school and finding it looked great in the process. Really nothing more than that. It was more impulse. I realized after posting it that perhaps I had more of a responsibility. It was very tame in comparison to others that get posted here and even those are tame, so it wasn't any big deal at all. It was the unexpected way I felt about it afterward that became my dilemma.

    Art, as for it being paternalistic, I guess I will agree to that. I now have a child and it has made me look at things far differently than ever before. Condescending? I'm not sure about that. Perhaps, but no more than any person who's been around the block trying to impart some wisdom to someone not fully aware of the potential consequences of their actions. If my kid had a loaded pistol in his hand, would it be condescending for me to point out the danger to him? Not a great analogy, but equally capapable of seriously changing your life it seems. At least in this country. I also think of you in a different league. A part of your work is outright glamour, your models appear to be more professional and in a niche where sexuality is much more overt. In other words, I think they know what they're getting themselves into more than the less experienced "girl next door" posing for figure studies. I enjoyed looking at your site, but will confess that if I had a daughter I would keep you away from her until she was at least 30!

    Ian, Your point is well taken concerning adulthood but your perspective from Europe is quite a bit different than in America. Minds do not seem to be as open here. If I were living in Europe I probably wouldn't feel like I do in a place where certain officials were advocates of robes on naked statues in government buildings.

    Patrick, Thank you for your kind words. They mean a lot.

    Thanks to everyone else who has posted to this thread! It has been good to hear all the different perspectives.

    Bill

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