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  1. #21
    DrPablo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RossJarvis View Post
    It intrigues me that you say that silver images are better than digital on the very small level as my own understanding makes me feel that the ability of digital to record tone at a micro level should actually be the opposite. maybe the technology and software lags behind the potential of the process.
    I don't think it's the technology or software. I think it has to do with several factors including 1) the Bayer interpolation, which causes an effective bleeding of exposure information into neighboring pixels, 2) the antialiasing filters that are necessary to prevent moire, and 3) the generally lower resolution per unit area of digital sensors than film emulsions. Practically speaking this difference is overcome by the lossiness of scanning or enlarging; but the highest resolution DSLR in pixel density, the Nikon D2X, has a theoretical maximum resolution of 89 lp/mm and the vaunted Canon 5D has a theoretical maximum resolution of only 61 lp/mm (because it has 61 photosite pairs per mm). This is probably never achieved in practice.
    Paul

  2. #22
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    Is sheet music analog or digital?
    Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetuer adipiscing elit. In velit arcu, consequat at, interdum sit amet, consequat in, quam.

  3. #23
    Jon King's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jstraw View Post
    Is sheet music analog or digital?
    It's the negative, so it must be analog, true???
    Jonathan
    -----------------------------------------------

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by PhotoJim View Post

    When something ceases to be reality, it's no longer a photograph. It is an image.
    Nowhere to be on this Friday night, so here goes.

    Jim, this is not a rant against you personally, I have just heard this analogy quite often and it makes no sense to me. I'm certainly not a digital guy, but....

    Semantics. A digital photograph vs. a analog photograph. A photograph is "of" an image. They're both photographs of images on different mediums. To me, simply, photography is "capturing" a moment in time with light, it's the light that provides us with the end result; without light what do you have? My guess is a huge problem be it with film or be it with pixels. Both mediums are satisfied when light strikes the film plane or the digital "thingy".

    On this question of reality: Literal representations, how boring!
    Have you (this a collective "you", to mean anybody) ever used a dark red filter to create that stark contrast between a blue sky and white clouds? How real is that? Have you ever manipulated the contrast in your black and white photographs to enhance your original visualization, to give it that expression you are looking for? How real are the tones in the final print versus how they looked in your mind's eye versus how they appeared in the viewfinder or GG? What manipulations have been provided to the subject(s) that are obviously not true to the "image" values? These manipulations are done to rocks, trees, cars, buildings, etc..., etc...

    I would argue that we see these subjects as rocks, trees, etc.....but, that is probably where the reality ends. Where is the expression that we all try to give to our prints, if we do not depart from reality at some point? In this community, I can think of several photographs that come to mind to me as being very expressive, optically true, but tonally, probably definite departures from reality consistent with their own visualization. Bill Schwab's image of the waterfall comes to my mind first, that was simply awesome to look at on my monitor; I can only imagine an actual print!

    (I know it's a stupid rock and tree analogy, but... )
    I think for most analog folks, we want there to be no question in other's minds that..........that rock really was next to that tree that was next to the waterfall, etc...However, many digital folks are into "creating" such an image (I can say this because I know some who just love that aspect of the digital medium) when, perhaps, these things were not all present together at the same time when the image was made. I know, this can be done under the enlarger too, but perhaps more easily perceived, IDK. Anyway, it doesn't interest me in the least just because it can be done with a silver image too. Not my brand of photography.


    Chuck

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by mhv View Post
    Only nothingness is continuous...
    Not even that (string theory).

    Cheers,

    Roger

  6. #26
    Michel Hardy-Vallée's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Hicks View Post
    Not even that (string theory).

    Cheers,

    Roger
    Awwww..... The pain!
    Using film since before it was hip.


    "One of the most singular characters of the hyposulphites, is the property their solutions possess of dissolving muriate of silver and retaining it in considerable quantity in permanent solution" — Sir John Frederick William Herschel, "On the Hyposulphurous Acid and its Compounds." The Edinburgh Philosophical Journal, Vol. 1 (8 Jan. 1819): 8-29. p. 11

    My APUG Portfolio

  7. #27
    Pragmatist's Avatar
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    And at the end of the day, none of it makes a damned bit of difference.
    Patrick

    something witty and profound needs to be inserted here...

  8. #28
    Daniel_OB's Avatar
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    If filters, or like, make just anything with reality in photography
    what you see when you get sunglasses on? If it is not reality any more, please test it between rails when you see the train is coming. Do not worry it is not reality, just a small test.
    When ever such a topic comes guys run into metaphisic and go up to black hole with "philosophy". But we forget what are properties of photography are: say outline (no details at all within and no hand ever can make it).
    What is photography concerning "reality" you need not a long: just think when, why, and who invented photography. That should be enough.

    End for Roger H.: the moment when a driver turned away is a real moment. The truck was where it was, your coment is just a reason why truck was there (i can add one more example: what it will looks like if there was no trafic light where photo camera is pointed? but the light is there, so). The scene was a true moment in this universe, and you snapped it.

    www.Leica-R.com
    Last edited by Daniel_OB; 07-03-2007 at 08:58 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  9. #29

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    Quote Originally Posted by jstraw View Post
    Is sheet music analog or digital?
    I must admit I find this subject frustrating. I would love to crush the toes of the person that first attached the word "analog" with the word "photography". In my opinion there is nothing analog about photography. To me the word "analog" simply does not fit the subject in this case. Nor can I justify this word usage by referring to it's definition in the dictionary. Why do we continue to propagate this usage of the word?

    What is the specific definition of Analog Photography? When did Analog Photography first appear?

    I spent a majority of my career in electronics. Analog as used in electronics simply means the voltage in the circuit varies over time, as in the voltage in an analog amplifier or analog signal. Digital on the other hand, another class of circuit, uses positive/negative/zero voltage (sometimes called 1's and 0's) to represent a specific state or condition. Digital works well for representing numbers electrically.

    My only explanation as to why someone word use the adjective "analog" with the noun "photography" is for the lack of a better word to define "non-digital photographic techniques". "Analog" probably sounded good to that individual.

    IMHO sheet music is "printed music notation". Analog does not fit.

  10. #30
    copake_ham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DannL View Post
    I must admit I find this subject frustrating. I would love to crush the toes of the person that first attached the word "analog" with the word "photography". In my opinion there is nothing analog about photography. To me the word "analog" simply does not fit the subject in this case. Nor can I justify this word usage by referring to it's definition in the dictionary. Why do we continue to propagate this usage of the word?

    What is the specific definition of Analog Photography? When did Analog Photography first appear?

    I spent a majority of my career in electronics. Analog as used in electronics simply means the voltage in the circuit varies over time, as in the voltage in an analog amplifier or analog signal. Digital on the other hand, another class of circuit, uses positive/negative/zero voltage (sometimes called 1's and 0's) to represent a specific state or condition. Digital works well for representing numbers electrically.

    My only explanation as to why someone word use the adjective "analog" with the noun "photography" is for the lack of a better word to define "non-digital photographic techniques". "Analog" probably sounded good to that individual.

    IMHO sheet music is "printed music notation". Analog does not fit.
    Strictly in the sense of a defined term - I agree with you that analog photography versus it's digital counterpart is not as clear a distinction between them as is found in analog and digital electronic circuitry. Not the least of which, the use of term "analog" in photography probably post-dates to the introduction of the digital version as opposed to the usage in electronics.

    But the term "analog" has come into generally-accepted usage as a means of making the distinction between the two forms of photography. Language in every day usage is not precise and English, especially, is very flexible. A brief search of this site will find at least a half dozen threads on English usage, it's oddities and quirks etc.

    What it comes down to is that on APUG the term "analog" has come be generally-accepted as referring to the various aspects of "traditional" (to use another "loaded" term) film photography.

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