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  1. #61
    copake_ham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhv View Post
    ....



    The image in your retina varies accordingly when you move in space. The photo does not.
    Huh?

    We're talking about the retina being used in both scenarios through a viewfinder - the difference is only the recording medium (i.e. brain vs. film/sensor).

    Why would the image recorded in the brain be true but the image on the film/sensor be untrue?

  2. #62
    Michel Hardy-Vallée's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by copake_ham View Post
    Huh?

    We're talking about the retina being used in both scenarios through a viewfinder - the difference is only the recording medium (i.e. brain vs. film/sensor).

    Why would the image recorded in the brain be true but the image on the film/sensor be untrue?
    Can you fix the image on a retina? If you can, then there's no difference. Like that fella just did: http://alecsoth.com/blog/2007/07/23/...ative-process/

    If you don't fix the image you have an actual direct, live informational link with your subject. Like a TV circuit you might ask?

    No: a TV circuit is in fact analogous to a photograph, not to viewfinder vision. Why? Again, because when you move in space before the tv screen or if you move the TV receiver the information displayed on it does not change accordingly. Granted, if you have a camera-monitor setup in one block, then you have a kind of CCD telescope. But with normal broadcast TV that is not the case.
    Using film since before it was hip.


    "One of the most singular characters of the hyposulphites, is the property their solutions possess of dissolving muriate of silver and retaining it in considerable quantity in permanent solution" — Sir John Frederick William Herschel, "On the Hyposulphurous Acid and its Compounds." The Edinburgh Philosophical Journal, Vol. 1 (8 Jan. 1819): 8-29. p. 11

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  3. #63
    bjorke's Avatar
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    ...right about here is where people usually mention Plato's cave

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  4. #64
    copake_ham's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhv View Post
    .....
    No: a TV circuit is in fact analogous to a photograph, not to viewfinder vision. Why? Again, because when you move in space before the tv screen or if you move the TV receiver the information displayed on it does not change accordingly. Granted, if you have a camera-monitor setup in one block, then you have a kind of CCD telescope. But with normal broadcast TV that is not the case.
    Leaving aside Bjorke's Plato's Cave for a moment (BTW: wasn't that a "swingers joint" in NYC in the late '60's and early '70's around 6th Ave. and West 25th St.?) what do you mean by the above?

    When you say a "TV circuit" do you mean the subject in front of the lens being "recorded" by the camera a controlled by the person viewing the image through the view finder?

    Or, do you mean the resulting transmitted image so recorded as set to a TV receive monitor?

    As to the latter. Yes, it is true that no matter where the viewer places herself - she will see the same image - albeit from various angles some of which may enhance or obscure the vision of the "full" image as transmitted by the camera. But regardless, what she will see is what some intervenor has decided she should see.

    But the camera operator is seeing the image as it is "viewed" by his eye via the lens. In fact, the lens is his eye such that his eye is wherever he points the lens.

    So, I would submit to you that while the TV viewer may not be seeing a "true" image - the camera person is - just as a camera connected to a telescope will "record the truth" of the image before it.

    Now as to Plato's Cave - Bjorke, did you ever really go there - or is it an image of having gone?

    EDIT: Shhh...

    Although he really meant: http://faculty.washington.edu/smcohen/320/cave.htm

    Let's see if he really did go to 6th Avenue?
    Last edited by copake_ham; 07-25-2007 at 11:03 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  5. #65
    Michel Hardy-Vallée's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stever View Post
    Are we getting anywhere or is this just mental masturbation?



    Steve
    Personally I don't care either way, but if you are chewing popcorn before people masturbating, well that's called watching porn...
    Using film since before it was hip.


    "One of the most singular characters of the hyposulphites, is the property their solutions possess of dissolving muriate of silver and retaining it in considerable quantity in permanent solution" — Sir John Frederick William Herschel, "On the Hyposulphurous Acid and its Compounds." The Edinburgh Philosophical Journal, Vol. 1 (8 Jan. 1819): 8-29. p. 11

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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by copake_ham View Post
    Leaving aside Bjorke's Plato's Cave for a moment...
    I meant the cave. You meant Platos' Retreat which I never visited. I tried going to Plato's Retreat West in Hollywood, since it was across the street from where I was studying TV writing at the time -- they only allowed couples or single women to enter, so I convinced my friend Kim to accompany me (and actually it was a location of great interest from a lot of girls I knew at the time, who would say they wanted to go but would get bashful if you suggested that they actually do it, heh) -- but they turned us away for being too young to be in a bar, and they closed theri doors permanently long before I reached a more appropriate age & had to find my own personal Sodoms and Gomorrahs.

    Hadn't thought about that in a while. Copake, you lech.

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