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  1. #11
    jd callow's Avatar
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    Are we talking about today's film/mom pop as the foil or counterpoint to our 'knowledge' of an idealized past where mom and pop's were intrinsic to the culture and film was like cambell's soup? If the artist forces us to see it as film (as in: shot on 16mm enlarged so the grain is apparent) and we are able to connect in our minds the state of each then I'd agree. It is easy to do with a tintype (although I have issues with cowboys on tintypes) not so easy with modern film. If we need to read the prologue to know that we're looking at film then it fails in my mind.

    Idealization of the past may not apply. We are talking about the state of these things today.

    *

  2. #12
    jovo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mhv View Post
    But have you seen somewhere in magazines, in stores, or in the people's general attitudes toward film something that may indicate that an educated form of coopting is developing along the lines of gentrification and Starbucksization or Ben & Jerryfication of consumer products? Is film and film equipment already a token of one's status towards authenticity and consumerism?
    .

    Yes......:

    http://www.potterybarn.com/shop/acc/...dex.cfm?page=4

    What's more, they have imitation LF cameras on little tripods somewhere in that catalog. Bill Schwab was writing about this sort of thing some months ago (he'd been asked if he would like to have some of his work marketed in this way). If you find the thread, it'd be interesting in terms of your thesis to revisit that discussion. Of course the irony is that all of the B&W prints in the PB catalog are inkjet reproductions of mostly gelatin silver originals. It's like Ralph Lauren's invention of the rugged, gentleman westerner living in luxury in rural Connecticut. ( I can't believe that RL didn't start marketing tasteful little cans of genuine prairie dust to sprinkle on your boots....in fact...now that I think of it....hmmmmm.) :o
    John Voss

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  3. #13
    glbeas's Avatar
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    http://www.potterybarn.com/products/...a&cm%5Fsrc=SCH

    Cute little thang. Reckon we could get a piece of film into it?
    Gary Beasley

  4. #14
    Michel Hardy-Vallée's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glbeas View Post
    http://www.potterybarn.com/products/...a&cm%5Fsrc=SCH

    Cute little thang. Reckon we could get a piece of film into it?
    *Long wailing howl*

    Aw shucks, now it's true, the memory will outlive us all and might even outlive the availability of materials as well.

    And John, the fact that they call the photographs "Wall Art" makes me puke! That's an excellent, if somewhat hard to bear, find.
    Last edited by Michel Hardy-Vallée; 08-03-2007 at 07:35 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    Using film since before it was hip.


    "One of the most singular characters of the hyposulphites, is the property their solutions possess of dissolving muriate of silver and retaining it in considerable quantity in permanent solution" — Sir John Frederick William Herschel, "On the Hyposulphurous Acid and its Compounds." The Edinburgh Philosophical Journal, Vol. 1 (8 Jan. 1819): 8-29. p. 11

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  5. #15
    Michel Hardy-Vallée's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jd callow View Post
    Are we talking about today's film/mom pop as the foil or counterpoint to our 'knowledge' of an idealized past where mom and pop's were intrinsic to the culture and film was like cambell's soup? If the artist forces us to see it as film (as in: shot on 16mm enlarged so the grain is apparent) and we are able to connect in our minds the state of each then I'd agree. It is easy to do with a tintype (although I have issues with cowboys on tintypes) not so easy with modern film. If we need to read the prologue to know that we're looking at film then it fails in my mind.

    Idealization of the past may not apply. We are talking about the state of these things today.
    I think the "extra grain" approach and the "I'm specifically using film for this project" can be in fact similar when they apply to the photography of mom and pop stores. Not in all cases, granted.

    The "extra grain" approach uses a material cue to strengthen the association between the medium and the subject, but the particular artist I linked to, even though she might be using modern T-grain films, also highlights the relationship between her medium and her subject. So it's a conceptual cue, an association that is enforced by the artist's statement, but I think in her case it's similar to the "extra grain" approach.

    On the other hand, I don't see the fact that William Eggleston uses film strongly linked to the fact that he photographs decaying stores or odd slivers of rusty things. At least, there's not that "I use a so-called old medium to photograph the relics of the past" attitude. His use of film might be correlated to other aspects of his practice, perhaps mere technical reasons even, but it does not have that simplistic and redundant link between medium and subject.

    I think that both the "extra grain" and the "modern film materials+artistic statement" approaches toward these subjects are a failure because of the thinness of thinking behind them. The extra grain might make the communication of the artist's statement clearer, but highlighting the use of film as a fundamentally appropriate medium for photographing old things is short-sighted. Sally Mann does not use collodion for the purpose of looking vintage, or for photographing vintage things.
    Using film since before it was hip.


    "One of the most singular characters of the hyposulphites, is the property their solutions possess of dissolving muriate of silver and retaining it in considerable quantity in permanent solution" — Sir John Frederick William Herschel, "On the Hyposulphurous Acid and its Compounds." The Edinburgh Philosophical Journal, Vol. 1 (8 Jan. 1819): 8-29. p. 11

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  6. #16
    jd callow's Avatar
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    I agree with the thinness of the thinking, but I'm not grasping how the artist "highlights the relationship" of the medium. I need to see the work and stop trying to imagine how it might work or in my case failing to imagine

    *

  7. #17
    Michel Hardy-Vallée's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jd callow View Post
    I agree with the thinness of the thinking, but I'm not grasping how the artist "highlights the relationship" of the medium. I need to see the work and stop trying to imagine how it might work or in my case failing to imagine
    I know, I want to see her work as well for fear I might be full of hot air!

    Anyway, the way I see it, you have two possible cases:

    Case 1: I cross-process and push E200 (can you even do that?) in my box brownie to take picshures of the barbershops around my neighbourhood. They're going away, and the huge artefacts in the 30"x30" blowups I then make call attention to the nature of the medium. They scream "I am film."

    Case 2: I put E100G in my C330 and go around taking the same pictures. I do small 10x10 cibas, but in the writeup I provide to the visitors of the exhibit, I write over and over about film and how much it is meaningful to me, and how much it is so appropriate to my subject, because you know, film is dying, and so are the barbershops.

    Case 2a: same thing, but instead of photographing barbershops and making a big writeup, I photograph old mom and pop photo shops. The content of my work calls attention to the medium of film through its content rather than through its form.
    Using film since before it was hip.


    "One of the most singular characters of the hyposulphites, is the property their solutions possess of dissolving muriate of silver and retaining it in considerable quantity in permanent solution" — Sir John Frederick William Herschel, "On the Hyposulphurous Acid and its Compounds." The Edinburgh Philosophical Journal, Vol. 1 (8 Jan. 1819): 8-29. p. 11

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  8. #18
    Michel Hardy-Vallée's Avatar
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    Well, did a quick Google on Zoe Leonard, and she's mostly a B&W photographer, so I presume the B&W is enough to make a Case 1 type of reference to the medium of film.

    http://csw.art.pl/new/99/zoeleo_e.html

    Nothing earth-shattering in her work, but I'd be curious to see more, and the particular book in question, when it comes out.
    Using film since before it was hip.


    "One of the most singular characters of the hyposulphites, is the property their solutions possess of dissolving muriate of silver and retaining it in considerable quantity in permanent solution" — Sir John Frederick William Herschel, "On the Hyposulphurous Acid and its Compounds." The Edinburgh Philosophical Journal, Vol. 1 (8 Jan. 1819): 8-29. p. 11

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  9. #19
    Mike Té's Avatar
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    Hi, Michel.

    I'm not sure that we all know what you mean by "bobo". The short form for "bourgeois-bohème" is pretty much a European term.
    Michael Robert Taylor
    Ottawa

    I wish I'D said that.... Bartlett

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  10. #20
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    A store with Efke would be a Real Deal.

    Starbucks is a manufactured simulacrum of the Real Deal -- thus its uniformity from Shanghai to Seattle.

    Next you'll start telling me about the brilliance of Anne Geddes

    "What Would Zeus Do?"
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