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  1. #21
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingCamera View Post
    Ed- I'm not trying to pick a fight with you here.
    Nor am I. Before I continue, though, I feel it necessary to understand something of the rationale behind your position.

    And I'm also not the only one who has noticed a trend in comments regarding images
    Flashback to Sociology 101: Bandstanding. "Everyone else agrees with me..."

    Ask Suzanne, or Jeanette, or heck, even Sanders McNew.
    All photographers whom I respect deeply. However, it is not my desire to place the burden of proof on them or anyone else. I cannot find these "locker room comments", after some effort, and I will not demand any effort on their part - or anyone else's - to support YOUR assumption. If they, or anyone else desires to participate here, they are completely welcome - especially if they have concrete examples

    I suspect, Ed, that any example I could point to, or even group of examples, you and I would disagree on.
    I don't - can't - accept that as a necessity - or inevitable conclusion.

    I am sincerely TRYING to listen - and I think many more here are paying attention as well.
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  2. #22
    TheFlyingCamera's Avatar
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    Ed- I'll be happy to provide you with some examples if you can wait a few days so I can hunt down the nudes in the galleries and pull quotes from comments. There are, after all, over 15,000 images in the galleries...

    Ok- here's an example-
    from http://www.apug.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=26638

    "umm, bokeh wasn't the first thing I noticed. David you need to get out more LOL."

    I think the best examples of it were on Sanders' photos, all of which are gone now.
    Last edited by TheFlyingCamera; 08-26-2007 at 10:07 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  3. #23
    sly
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    I do have model releases for my photos, and could post them here, but I don't feel comfortable doing so.
    I DO NOT object to nudes. I'd like to see more variety in the models - more males, more flesh on the bones, more age on the flesh.
    2 of my offspring grew up in the world of ballet and one now dances for a living. I am very sensitive to the whole you can never be too thin, anorexic, glorification of a particular body type because I spent so many years making sure my kids did not buy into that vision - which pervades the dance world even more than it does our culture at large. We come in a variety of shapes and sizes, we all age, and we are all be beautiful. I'd like to see that reflected more in the nudes that show up here. Sly

  4. #24

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Leake View Post
    I
    With respect, this is neither surprising nor relevant. If the only measure of photographic merit was how many times people have looked at the picture (or how many comments were left), then it would be a very sad world indeed. Thankfully the folks here are, on the whole, more sensible than that.
    I don't know what conclusion you thought I was drawing from the statistics; in fact I was drawing no conclusion whatever. I just thought it was interesting in and of itself. The statistics offered were simply the average number of views, and it was simply offered in support of Jovo's statement that nudes get more views than other images. People had said that before, and I'd wondered if it were true, so being a statistician, I had to find out for myself; sure enough.

    But the listing of the average views had no relevance to anything else in the thread, such as the number or type of comments; in my tabulation I didn't even look at the comments (or at the images for that matter) only at the thumbnails and the number of views listed below each of them. My post about the average-number-of-views statistics and the one answering the question about the kind of comments were completely separate and quoted different comments from different posters; they were not related in any way.

    Like sly, I have nothing against nude photos; I've taken a few myself. One of yours (Ian) is in my "favorites" folder, because I love the high-key warm tones and the composition of it. But I understand what sly and Scott are saying about the nudge-wink locker-room atmosphere; I've noticed it too. And I agree about the body type thing, too.
    Katharine
    Last edited by Katharine Thayer; 08-26-2007 at 10:43 AM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: clarity

  5. #25
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingCamera View Post
    Ed- I'll be happy to provide you with some examples if you can wait a few days so I can hunt down the nudes in the galleries and pull quotes from comments. There are, after all, over 15,000 images in the galleries...
    Take your time - I can wait.

    Ok- here's an example-
    from http://www.apug.org/gallery/showphoto.php?photo=26638

    "umm, bokeh wasn't the first thing I noticed. David you need to get out more LOL."
    Interesting. I'm not a devotee of "bokeh", so it would not be my first consideration either. I suppose we can extrapolate (somewhat wildly. IMHO) and assume Eric Rose had some salacious purpose in mind ...

    Or was it, "You have to get out more"?

    This certainly is an indication of your sensitivity level. Personally, I doubt that this statement, would not have even been noticed in the usual Gallery "shmoozing" - with females included.

    Anyone else here care to comment?
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  6. #26
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Katharine Thayer View Post
    And I agree about the body type thing, too.
    Katharine
    I agree - strongly - as well.

    I just watched the American Women's Soccer Team defeat the Finnish Women's team. I really dislike stereotypical "Ideals", but I couldn't help but notice how attractive the players were.

    Would that be "locker room talk"? - beyond the pale?
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  7. #27
    BWGirl's Avatar
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    Well, Scott, since you brought me into this, I will tell you that you are spot on & so are Sly & Katherine. I mentioned this exact same "phenomenon" (ie 600 views to 5 comments sort of thing) back quite some time ago. Trust me... they aren't listening. :rolleyes:

    That said, I hate to break it to you, but (as I once read on a Harley-Davidson shirt) "If I have to explain, you wouldn't understand." :rolleyes:

    In other words no matter how many times we say it, no matter how many times we se it, no matter how many times we rail against it, it still exists and there will still be people who say "it does not happen," or "so what if it does." Hence... if we have to explain (yet again), they still will not understand (yet again). :rolleyes:
    Jeanette
    .................................................. ................
    Isaiah 25:1

  8. #28
    BWGirl's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ed Sukach View Post
    I agree - strongly - as well.

    I just watched the American Women's Soccer Team defeat the Finnish Women's team. I really dislike stereotypical "Ideals", but I couldn't help but notice how attractive the players were.

    Would that be "locker room talk"? - beyond the pale?
    Nah, Ed... it's ok for you to think someone of the gender you are attracted to is attractive.
    Jeanette
    .................................................. ................
    Isaiah 25:1

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andy K View Post
    I rarely view nudes in the gallery. I noticed the disproportionate viewing figures they receive some time ago, and decided not to add to them.
    Me too.

    Murray
    _________________________________________
    Note to self: Turn your negatives into positives.

  10. #30

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    Publicly posting a shot of someone in the buff without consent is unthinkable, irrespective of how mature the response. It would be a gross betrayal of trust.

    The wink wink nudge nudge I do not see as especially OTT. It is there once in a while, but not a major issue. I have seen lots of debates about nudes that have been very focused and none that have lost their way because of oggling, but maybe that is just my experience. Sure, we should not encourage oggling. But I also don't think we need to fix something if we don't have a serious problem. I just don't see one really.

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