Discussions: 45,159 | Messages: 608,974 | Members: 29,920 | Online: 311 | Chatroom: 0
User Name:  Password:
 

"That is called grain. It is supposed to be there." -Flotsam


 
APUG search    RSS MOBILE
Customize Sidebar
Gum-Silver Process
Author: Dwane
1107 view(s)
aj 12 + various things
Author: jnanian
636 view(s)
Kodak D-19
Author: Tom Hoskinson
953 view(s)
Go Back   APUG > APUG English Forums > General Discussion > Ethics and Philosophy > Sally Mann's exhibition in Helsinki under police investigation

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-28-2007, 03:47 PM   #1 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland for over 14 years now.
Posts: 755
Default Sally Mann's exhibition in Helsinki under police investigation

A Sally Mann exhibition is running at Helsinki's "Tennis Palace" and attracting controversy. Heard on the radio that a "group of seven people" have asked the police to investigate whether certain of the pictures are "hurtful to humanity" (a rough translation of the Finnish). I've been to see the show, which comprises some of the older pictures of her children including all the most famous ones, a series of large wet-plate landscapes, a series of large close-up portraits of a daughter, and a series of wet-plate studies of murder victims.
What did I think... Well, the pictures of her children certainly do not constitute child pornography, not in this universe or any number of alternate ones. A couple of these pictures are exceptional, very beautiful. I was disappointed in the print-making, which was heavy-handed. Much isolating of the central figure and heavy, heavy, heavy burning down of all surroundings.
Of the landscapes, one was exceptional to my mind. Useless to try to describe it. The rest were not particularly interesting, southern gothic sounding a monotonous note.
The series of large, close-up pictures of her daughter -- perhaps 10 in all, wet-plate, rough application of emulsion, there was graphical interest yes, relying on the spontaneousness of the medium used rough. Not much progression from picture to picture. Maybe would repay longer contemplation.
Turning to the hurting of humanity, the picture of a dead obese woman, naked, lying face down, her corpse decaying, the flesh falling away, who has been brutally tortured as evidenced by wires around her wrists having visibly dug into the flesh splayed open and pulpy, her body dumped in a forest clearing, decaying leaves piled up against her rancid buttocks, the large format camera placed close, the angle of view slightly downwards, the wet plate emulsified on the spot presumably amidst the buzzing of flies and the stench of death.
I felt a pang of embarrassment for the photographer, who obviously does not understand. But I inspected the pictures, which are very well done technically, and strode out of the room washing myself mentally as I went. The pictures are not hurtful to humanity, they are merely beneath contempt. Just another iteration of the bile spewing across the nation's television screens, iPods and computer monitors. If the Helsinki police condemn these pictures, they must condemn much else as well.
Svend Videbak is offline   Reply With Quote Ignore this user Ignore this thread Ignore this forum
Old 11-28-2007, 04:31 PM   #2 (permalink)
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Daventry, Northamptonshire, England
Posts: 3,881
Default

I am always curious and suspicious how a photographer other than a scenes of crime police photographer ever comes across such bodies? Did she just stumble upon it? Did someone else find it and his/her first thought is:" I must call photographer X before I report my finding to anyone else?"

Does the picture carry a history of its capture and the purpose of its taking. If so I'd like to hear it. I am sure I lead a very sheltered life compared to Sally Mann and no doubt most other professional photographers but I could live to be 150 and I am sure I'd never come across a dead body in a forest and certainly not in this state. If I did I hope my first instinct wouldn't be to photograph it.

If the police were to hold an exhibition of all the factory and road accident deaths in the U.K. it would be rightly condemned for its tastelessness to say the least and possible its offence to humanity. I certainly wouldn't want to live in a country where the police wanted to exhibit such pictures. I understand the need for photojournalism to bring home to people instances of inhumanity as part of an accompanying campaign but this is completely different to the purpose behind the exhibition above.

In this world life is still cheaper than it deserves to be and the human race has a worrying talent for cheapening it.

pentaxuser
pentaxuser is offline   Reply With Quote Ignore this user Ignore this thread Ignore this forum
Old 11-28-2007, 04:33 PM   #3 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Hamilton, Canada
Posts: 265
Default

cool
David William White is offline   Reply With Quote Ignore this user Ignore this thread Ignore this forum
Old 11-28-2007, 04:36 PM   #4 (permalink)
 
Monophoto's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Saratoga Springs, NY
Posts: 1,447
Default

Many years ago, in the early days of the Internet, there were a few services who would forward messages while disguising the originator. These so-called "anonymous" forwarders served mainly to facillitate the uncontrolled spread of pornography.

And where was the most famous of these servers located? Yup, Finland.

Go figure.
__________________
Louie
Monophoto is online now   Reply With Quote Ignore this user Ignore this thread Ignore this forum
Old 11-28-2007, 04:39 PM   #5 (permalink)
 
Cheryl Jacobs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Denver, Colorado, USA
Posts: 1,257
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by pentaxuser View Post
I am always curious and suspicious how a photographer other than a scenes of crime police photographer ever comes across such bodies? Did she just stumble upon it? Did someone else find it and his/her first thought is:" I must call photographer X before I report my finding to anyone else?"


pentaxuser
Pentaxuser,

It's been a long time since I saw the prints in question, but I do remember that in her book, SM states that the images were shot at a body farm with full permission. Info on body farms here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Body_Farm

I definitely don't care to look at the dead people images myself and didn't feel they were particular well shot or printed, but there's nothing terribly sinister about how they were made.

- CJ
__________________
Now blogging on a semi-regular basis at http://www.cherylnicolai.squarespace.com
Cheryl Jacobs is offline   Reply With Quote Ignore this user Ignore this thread Ignore this forum
Sponsored Ad. (Subscribers to APUG have the option to remove this ad.)

Old 11-28-2007, 04:42 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
abeku's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Sweden
Posts: 346
Default

Sally Mann's exhibition in Stockholm was also discussed in terms of child pornography when it arrived but in the end it turned out to be one of the most popular exhibits of the year and the criticism faded away in favor for the quality of the artist's work.
Regarding her work on dead bodies, she had access to a "body farm" for forensic studies where the various stages of decay was studied. There's a recent TV documentary about Mann where one can follow her photographic journey from the family pictures to the body farm work.
BTW, I really enjoyed her exhibition!
__________________
monochromes
abeku is offline   Reply With Quote Ignore this user Ignore this thread Ignore this forum
Old 11-28-2007, 05:20 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Louisiana, USA
Posts: 1,325
Default

Some of the forensics laboratory "body farm" photos were included in her exhibition and book "What Remains". In the context of that project they were effective and not at all like the "bile" described. They probably present a different tone when viewed as part of a general exhibit so I can understand the reaction to a certain extent. "What Remains" dealt with death and literally what is left behind after death, culminating with the photos of her children--her legacy after she is gone.

Her landscapes transcend the standard concepts with the use of wet plates, uneven emulsion applications and widely varying exposures. I like them. I've said before you may have to be Southern to get the emotions that come across in her landscapes. Without that feeling, they might appear to be just poorly executed experiments.
Lee Shively is offline   Reply With Quote Ignore this user Ignore this thread Ignore this forum
Old 11-28-2007, 05:27 PM   #8 (permalink)
 
Petri's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Helsinki, Finland
Posts: 16
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Monophoto View Post
These so-called "anonymous" forwarders served mainly to facillitate the uncontrolled spread of pornography.
And where was the most famous of these servers located? Yup, Finland.

Go figure.
I wonder if this really is true. How do you know about it?

Well, about the exhibition. I guess I have to see it after it has been advertised with this day's news. And it is not really under Police investigation; a group of people has only asked the police to take a look at the matters. The police decides then whether if will need any actions.

That reminds me, that I ought to see the exhibition.
Petri is offline   Reply With Quote Ignore this user Ignore this thread Ignore this forum
Old 11-28-2007, 05:39 PM   #9 (permalink)
 
clay's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Houston, Texas
Posts: 981
Default

The 'body farm' pictures were taken at the FBI forensics farm that plants donated and unclaimed bodies outdoors so their scientists can observe exactly how bodies decay over time. The information gained is valuable for investigating crime scenes. It allows the investigators to make informed guesses as to time of death, place of death etc.... The 'farm' is in Virginia, which is also where Sally Mann lives. She had permission from the FBI for her access, obviously.

The book 'What Remains' is a very hard book to peruse, precisely because it is taking an unblinking look at a subject we'd rather not think about on any deep level: mortality and death and its somewhat democratic application to the entire human population. And the point I believe that she is making is that the objects in the photos do not represent the human beings - but rather the meat locker that contained the 'real person' and the personality and humanity that is no longer there. Anyway, that is my take on it.

I agree with the poster that this stuff is weird to look at. It is uncomfortable and scary. But no one is making you look at it either. If you don't like it, then turning on your heels and walking away is totally permitted.
__________________
I just want to feel nostalgic like I used to.


http://www.clayharmon.net - turnip extraordinaire
clay is offline   Reply With Quote Ignore this user Ignore this thread Ignore this forum
Old 11-28-2007, 05:39 PM   #10 (permalink)
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Posts: 12
Default The Finland anonymizer did exist

Quote:
Originally Posted by Petri View Post
I wonder if this really is true. How do you know about it?
Actually, it is true, at least the bit about Finland being the site of a popular "anonymizer" server:

Quote:
The Penet remailer (anon.penet.fi) was a pseudonymous remailer (type 0) operated by Johan "Julf" Helsingius of Finland from 1993 to 1996. Its initial creation stemmed from an argument in a Finnish newsgroup over whether people should be required to tie their real name to their online communications
(from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penet_remailer, Wikipedia)

And it was also true that anon.penet.fi did handle a lot of early postings of porn files, primarily on the USENET network. However, that wasn't the server's only use -- being anonymous was often desired at the time. It was a different time than today...
jslabovitz is offline   Reply With Quote Ignore this user Ignore this thread Ignore this forum

APUG.ORG Block Ads. (APUG Subscribers have the option of closing this block)
 


  Contact Us - Advertise on APUG - Archive - Top - Site Terms - Forum Rules  
    

All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:38 PM.
  
All Content Copyright © 2002-2008 Photocentric Ltd.   Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO APUG.ORG is a division of Photocentric Ltd.
This site is best viewed with a resolution of 1280x1024 (or higher), we recommend using