Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 71,466   Posts: 1,570,716   Online: 1010
      
Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast
Results 31 to 40 of 74
  1. #31
    Black Dog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    I've been everywhere ooooohhh yeaahhhh still I'm standing tall.
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,664
    I totally agree with all this-all too often I'm reminded of the scene in Monty Python's 'Life of Brian' where the crowd shout "We're all individuals"...
    Also if you show any interest in craft you all too often get accused of being a nerd, obsessed with technique at the expense of expression- which is complete***************** as the two are allies. Imagine trying to read a novel that was full of printing errors, with missing pages etc.-the printing of that Eugene Smith pic really enhanced the power of the image.
    "He took to writing poetry and visiting the elves: and though many shook their heads and touched their foreheads and said 'Poor old Baggins!' and though few believed any of his tales, he remained very happy till the end of his days, and those were extraordinarily long "- JRR Tolkien, ' The Hobbit '.

  2. #32

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Omaha, Nebraska
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    2,512
    Images
    4
    I think that the greatest art can be viewed or listened to completely apart from the artist. That is, the artist does not create to draw attention to himself, but to illuminate, reveal or glorify the subject matter. When I look at a Weston or O'Keefe, a Matisse, Picasso, Rothko or listen to Bach or Mozart or watch a play of Arthur Miller's or Eugene O'Neil I do not think of the artist other than to be thankful for the gifts that they have shared with us. The power of the work transcends the artist.

    In most of today's contemporary art, the subject is the artist. Most work screams "look at me! Am I not a clever chap?" Quite a bit of it is about the artist's perceived angst and ax to grind with a world that doesn't understand them or is unfair. Somehow this drivel is considered to be intellectual and embraced by critics who enjoy their position in the world of New York art and the glitterati. Professors and teachers promote it because it justifies their own pitiful and lazy art.

    Pick up any issue of Art Forum, Modern Painters, Contemporary Art etc, and show me work with any lasting value. There is some there, and some very good work, very beuatiful work. But most of it just seems to be made with a "keeping up with the Joneses metality.

    Then there are the collectors. Who wants a Walker Evans, an Adams a Brett Weston or an O'Keeffe on the wall. They are so old school! Better to have something by Paul McCarthy or Witkin. Something for the dinner guests to see how hip you are.

    Yes, I know what many say. "Who am I to decide what is and is not art?" What I do know is that a thousand people can walk by a pile of garbage for a few minutes and probably find something interesting in the pile, then walk away and forget it. A great work of art could be appreciated by one indivdual for a thousand years.

    I know there are great artists out there struggling, creating masterpieces putting there work ahead of themselves without putting a chip on their shoulder that screams the world owes them something for their efforts.

    Some thoughts and rants on this interesting thread.

  3. #33
    lee
    lee is offline
    lee's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Fort Worth TX
    Shooter
    8x10 Format
    Posts
    2,913
    Images
    8
    One thing I find interesting about this thread is that back in good old days, people screamed that this new art was not art at all. It was just garbage. Weston had work rejected and tossed out of the Armory Show in 1920 something. Today, that print (printed by Cole Weston) hangs on my hall wall in my house. Picasso had trouble in Paris as did a lot of other cubists and didn't the Abstract Expressionists take a lot of grief in the 1950's? Now we are all free to choose which art we display on the walls or in the galleries, but sometimes we are just too close to art to see the forest for the trees. Rejection of modern work is not a new thing.

    lee\c

  4. #34

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Just north of the Inferno
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    750
    Images
    27
    To me it seems like it has come full circle. The New Art is "the only way" and older art is "wrong". Basically it seems like a lot of dogma is involved.

    Personally I find some of what people do disgusting. There is one girl in my program who is amazing. She is young, but she has great technical skills in the darkroom and she comes up with some great things. Very talented and promising. You can just tell. She is of course viewed as "problematic" and "too technical" for today's world.

    Real shame too. She is good. I am hoping to collaborate with her over the winter break.
    Official Photo.net Villain
    ----------------------
    [FONT=Comic Sans MS]DaVinci never wrote an artist's statement...[/FONT]

  5. #35
    bjorke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2003
    Location
    SF & Surrounding Planet
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    2,032
    Images
    20
    One of the greatest dangers for an artist is to become to involved in theory and to get caught up in reactionary attitudes toward what they DON'T like. One can't make art that way. One can write about art as a reaction, but not create it.

    Directing energy toward work that is personally meaningful is a far more productive use of your time than worrying about whether other people's art sucks.

    "What Would Zeus Do?"
    KBPhotoRantPhotoPermitAPUG flickr Robot

  6. #36
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Ipswich, Massachusetts, USA
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    4,520
    Images
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by bjorke
    One of the greatest dangers for an artist is to become to involved in theory and to get caught up in reactionary attitudes toward what they DON'T like. One can't make art that way. One can write about art as a reaction, but not create it.
    Directing energy toward work that is personally meaningful is a far more productive use of your time than worrying about whether other people's art sucks.
    Bravo!!!

    Well said, and deserves repeating!
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  7. #37
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Ipswich, Massachusetts, USA
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    4,520
    Images
    26
    Just reading in my "Library" (otherwise known as the loo, for all you in Jolly Old..) and thought this might be appropriate here: Julia Cameron's "The Artist's Way", page 154,

    "CREATIVE U-TURNS

    Recovering from artist's block, like recovering from any major illness or injury, requires a commitment to health. At some point, we must make an active choice to relinquish the joys and privileges accorded to the emotional invalid. a productive artist is quite often a happy person. This can be very threatening as a self-concept to those who are used to getting their needs met by being unhappy.
    "I'd love to, but you see ... I have these crippling fears ..." can get us a lot of attention. We get more sympathy as crippled artists than as functional ones. Those of us addicted to sympathy in place of creativity can become increasingly threatened as we become increasingly functional. Many recovering artists become so threatened that the make U-turns and sabotage themselves.
    We usually commit creative hara-kiri either on the eve or in the wake of a first creative victory. The glare of success (a poem, and acting job, a song, a short story, a film, or any success) can send the recovering artist scurrying back into the cave of self-defeat. We're more comfortable being a victim of artist's block than risking having to consistently be productive and healthy.
    An artistic U-turn arrives on a sudden wave of indifference . We greet our newly minted product or our delightful process with, "Aw, what does it matter anyhow? It's just a start. Everyone else is so much further ahead..."
    Yes, and they will stay that way if we stop working. The point is that we have traveled light-years from where we were when we were blocked. We are now on the road, and the road is scary. We begin to be distracted by roadside attractions or detoured by the bumps."

    To me, a major "bump" is the idea of, "Well, the entire art world is crazy and incoherent anyway. If it wasn't for all this garbage that everyone is accepting as art, they'd all notice how good my work is ...." - and succumbing to the all too often product of negative thought - retreating into a cave of self-pity and inaction.

    I refuse to agonize over the "craziness" of the world - or any small part of it. I'll continue to search for, work toward, discover, or create ... or whatever the hell it is that I do in photography, for that bright spark of an image that "enraptures" ME. If in doing so, I am able to share that rapture with someone else - WONDERFUL!!

    This book, "The Artist's Way", by Julia Cameron, has probably had more of an effect on my life and thought, - and SPIRIT - than any other.
    I can and will recommend this, without reservation, to all.
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  8. #38
    Aggie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2003
    Location
    So. Utah
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,925
    Images
    6
    ..

  9. #39

    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Location
    Just north of the Inferno
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    750
    Images
    27
    Bingo!

    The problem is they don't want to. To move away from giving the Turner prize for someone who simply knows how hire a good electrician (seriously, it happened. And Madonna even awarded the damn thing....a new low. Look here for details -
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/turnerpriz...589159,00.html ) would mean that you actually would need SKILL to be considered GOOD. I mean imagine what would happen if people were required to LEARN PRINTING SKILLS! Oh, the humanity! Or worse yet, learn COMPOSITION! It would be chaos! People would actually have to MAKE the art instead of just buying it or digging it out of the trash! Guys like Martin Creed would have to do more than get some unnamed sparky to install a timmer on some room lights!

    I mean if people started MAKING their own art, when would they have time to do things like attend openings and have fondue parties?
    Official Photo.net Villain
    ----------------------
    [FONT=Comic Sans MS]DaVinci never wrote an artist's statement...[/FONT]

  10. #40
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2002
    Location
    Ipswich, Massachusetts, USA
    Shooter
    Medium Format
    Posts
    4,520
    Images
    26
    Quote Originally Posted by Robert Kennedy
    To move away from giving the Turner prize for someone who simply knows how hire a good electrician... would mean that you actually would need SKILL to be considered GOOD. I mean imagine what would happen if people were required to LEARN PRINTING SKILLS! Oh, the humanity! Or worse yet, learn COMPOSITION! It would be chaos! People would actually have to MAKE the art instead of just buying it or digging it out of the trash! ...
    I mean if people started MAKING their own art, when would they have time to do things like attend openings and have fondue parties?
    Forgive me for omitting parts of your message here ... I hope I haven't changed the tone or intent significantly.

    I would suggest that the "awarders" of the Turner Prize are not the ultimate controllers of the "Art World". True, they might have some influence... and I have heard of them, but they certainly do not motivate ME.
    What this boils down to is a group of people who give money to weird people (as characterized by some). Strange, maybe ... but ... I wonder if anyone has seen the latest "Dilbert" strip, where "Chief High Honcho" hires a lackey to invent reasons for increasing the compensation to the CHH? There is one panel where Dilbert, frustrated, finally says (direct quote), "Gaaa!!! Stop pretending to have reasons!! Just steal the stupid money!!!"

    One thing sort of troubles me ... there is an assumption that, if someone does not USE the principles of composition, or the "skills" of printing, that it necessarily follows that they do not KNOW what they are. Possibly they don't, but this is one enormous leap to a conclusion.

    I claim a great deal of freedom in my work. If I choose to ignore the "rules" of composition, blow a highlight, or display shadows with no detail, or print in low, or high key, or incorporate wide angle distortion, or grain - or display a figure with a telephone pole sticking out of his head, I WILL (the telephone pole bit is not likely to happen, but that is beside the point)... And I'll do everything I can to encourage others to realize the same level of freedom.

    Will this in some way lead to the production of "bad" art? In some way, in some instances ... it COULD... but to quote one of the most important lines from Julia Cameron- Ste. Julia, to me ... "Don't worry that the art will not be GOOD. The real danger is that the art will not BE."

    BTW ... I *LIKE* fondue.
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

Page 4 of 8 FirstFirst 12345678 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin