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  1. #51

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    Well... I'm a bit late to this party. So, sorry to butt in but I'm going to back this up to the part I found interesting (I'm obviously not the shy introverted sort)

    Jim brought up some interesting points a couple pages back (quoted below) that I'd like to give my thoughts on.

    1) Already knowing what you don't like about your work: Not to pick on Jim cause maybe he can truly claim this (I haven't seen many of his prints) but I know I've fallen into this trap a couple times. "this is just the way I want it to be!" Give it a bit of time, a few dozen people looking at it and things start to sink in even through my thick skull and pretty soon I find myself making a new print.. or the opposite, learning to like something I wasn't fond of at the beginning.

    To me all feedback is valuable. You can learn a lot just by how someone flips the pages in your portfolio.

    2) What's all this have to do with the topic Francesco started? Why can't we be friends?

    Comes down to the issue of acceptance... Do you accept feedback or not? Do you accept other views of photography besides your own.. or not?

    John, George and I all make photos of old buildings in various states of disrepair. Each of us has a different style. I know some photographers that take personal affront at any photo in their subject shot with a different style. To them, it's wrong. Wrong! Wrong! Wrong!

    Personally I find it extremely interesting that the three of us can photograph similar subjects, have similar values and yet *see* them so differently.

    To me the art of photography is a blend of several arts, one of them being the art of communication. To be able to communicate your visual ideas you need to understand how other people see and process visual information... and trust me, very few of us see exactly the same.

    To wrap up my now-close-to-novel-length post (humblest apologies)

    The craft of photography is just a means to an end... Being happy. If you get right down to it you do make photos to be happy right? Getting so caught up in the details of developing, exposing, discussing, etc, that you lose your happiness seems counterproductive doesn't it?


    Cheers,
    Ian




    Quote Originally Posted by GreyWolf
    Constructive criticism is very helpful in improving my vision and my technique.
    I guess I must fit into a different category. When I am attempting to improve, I already know what areas I do not like about my work. Therefore I would ask for an opinion or help and guidance on how I might improve on what I am not happy with. The difference as I perceive this is that I am seeking help on a technique or such and not a specific image that I have created.

    As for just submitting a print for a critique has little purpose for me. It is like saying....well I am uncertain if this work of mine is of any value...please tell me what your view and opinion is.

    Sorry... but it does not work that way for me.

    When I create a print that I truly like then it is done and complete. Should somebody wish to view and comment on the print..that is perfectly acceptable and welcome, BUT their opinion is just that...THEIR opinion and it does not change how I feel about my work.

  2. #52
    KenM's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ian_greant
    1) Already knowing what you don't like about your work: Not to pick on Jim cause maybe he can truly claim this (I haven't seen many of his prints) but I know I've fallen into this trap a couple times. "this is just the way I want it to be!" Give it a bit of time, a few dozen people looking at it and things start to sink in even through my thick skull and pretty soon I find myself making a new print.. or the opposite, learning to like something I wasn't fond of at the beginning.
    I'll chime in here as well.

    My favourite print, of a waterfall, was printed exactly as I wanted it to be printed. I was happy with it; so happy that it was framed and hanging on my wall.

    It was too contrasty, not enough detail in the highlights, and so on. I got a 2x4 upside the head numerous times at a workshop (figuratively speaking, of course) as the instructors tried to pound it into my head that my images were too dark and needed to be lighened substantially.

    It took another couple of months after the workshop, but when I was printing the waterfall image, it finally clicked. It was, as they say, an ephiphany. The image I have now of the waterfall is incredibly luminous, and imparts the feeling that I experienced when I made the negative. I'm sure I would have found my way to my initial visualization, but the critique helped shorten the journey immensely.

    (Suffice to say that the original image is now buried deep in my darkroom storage closet, never again to see the light of day. Well, maybe, but only if it's *really * bright outside :-) )

    However, when someone is giving me a critique I make sure that I've seen at least part of the body of work the individual has created. I'm not all that interested in receiving a critique from a person who's never printed well themselves.

    Gallery shows are most entertaining in this regard.
    Cheers!

    -klm.

  3. #53
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dnmilikan
    I was thinking about this very thing the other day and came to the conclusion that there are certain personality characteristics that certainly lend themselves to an artist or any person that engages in creative endeavor. I obviously would include a photographer in that catagory. I think that an introverted, intuitive, feeling, and perceptive would be more likely to fit the creative mold. Introversion may not be an absolute prerequisite but I think the intuitive, feeling classifications are vitally important.

    What are your thoughts on this?
    First, I would caution anyone reading about this against being too quick to assume that the popular concept of "Introversion- Extroversion" is, in fact, correct. Rather than introversion = shy and withdrawn, it is probably more accurate that introversion could be defined as "Happier. more efficient, more "well suited" to working independently", as opposed to "being part of a team". We are taught by society that introversion is somehow "bad", and extroversion is "good", but - it ain't necessarily so.

    None of the "characteristics indicate any sort of "superiority" over another.
    There is a great need for the Extrovert AND the Introvert' the "Sensory" AND the "iNtuitive"; the "Thinking" and "Perceiving" types as well... the define a certain set of characteristics, and by recognizing those in ourselves, we can use those "pre-sets" to our advantage.

    This seems to fit well with the pursuit of Art - In one important sense it IS a quest to discover our "selfs".

    In considering all this, I'm motivated to "listen" more to those whose profile differs from mine.

    To be continued....
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  4. #54
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    dnmilikan wrote

    Michael,

    I am so relieved...you know I was worried about you. In the course of one's life (for those who have the problems that you have) there exist only one or two influential events that may tend to straighten one out. One of those is the "right" woman and the other is religion. It has been apparent to me for some time that your wife (wonderful woman that I am sure that she is) just has not succeeded in this daunting task. That leaves religion and I am so heartened to see the direction that you have taken.




    Don, Thank you for your kind thoughts.

    I think what you have said is true. My wife, bless her little heart, really does her best with me, but alas, it is a losing battle.

    After the epiphany I had with the Jehovahs Witnesses, I feel that perhaps my problems are too much for just one religion. With that thought in mind I have decided to subscribe to them all. Granted this takes a lot of reading, and kneeling but in the long run I feel that this will really do me some good.

    The other advantage in this, is I get a lot more holidays. That in itself may be a mixed blessing as it will give me a lot more free time to allow my "problems" to manifest themselves.

    My only concern is that I may inadvertantly slight myself one day and then have to announce a jihad against myself and then all hell may break loose. Shit I may even blow myself up, but then I'd have no way to retaliate, and then where would I be. You guessed it. And how the hell does one deal with 72 screaming bitching nagging virgins. "Pick me, Pick me" "You think she's prettier than me"

    Anyway, thanks again for your concern and may RA take a liking to you and you be in paradise 10 minutes before the devil knows your dead.


    Namaste


    Michael McBlane

  5. #55
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    Michael,

    Just follow the advice that helped me in my own spiritual quest. I believe it comes by way of Timothy Leary (an unimpeachable source for things "otherworldly"):

    Try out all the religions, then pick the parts you like and start your own. It's really cool - you get to make up your own dogma, or if you're allergic to dogmas change it to catma; create as many holidays as you like; and the best part is you can come up with your own really cool name for it. For example: Mine is "Joe Moe's First Church of Heavyosity." We have a sacrament that will blow your mind.

    Bless you, and the horse you rode in on...
    Latent Images Plastic Toy Cameras

    "Don't ask yourself what the world needs. Ask yourself what makes you come alive and go do that, because what the world needs is people who have come alive" - Howard Thurman

  6. #56
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  7. #57
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    Sorry Aggie;

    We kid cause we love.

    Truly, no offense meant.

    Enjoy your religion. Sometimes my irreverant sense of humor get the best of me.

    Michael

  8. #58
    Ed Sukach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alex Hawley
    Two very strong personalities who were hardly introverted. Winston Churchill and General George S. Patton Jr. Both were highly creative in their career fields..... Patton wrote beautiful poetry, and not poetry about war. He also had high regard for art and beauty. So, no, introversion is not a necessary part of creativity. (Patton was also frequently seen carrying a camera, in addition to his revolvers.)
    I have a listing for General George S. Patton as an "ISTP"... Which would indicate a primary direction of Introversion ... Kind of figures - he was known for some rather outrageous independent behavior. Hm ... Eisenhower, too, was an "INTP"...

    I don't have any information about Churchill - somehow, he doesn't strike me as being much of a "follower"...
    Carpe erratum!!

    Ed Sukach, FFP.

  9. #59

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    Ed,

    The way that I had this explained to me at one time was that an introvert gives up energy to a gathering of people and an extrovert becomes energized by a gathering of people.

    That a sensory or sensing predeliction has to "see, feel, and hear" the evidence and an intuitive lives in a world of possibilities. A sensing person would become very confused and irritated in the presence of an intuitive since they would not know where the intuitive was arriving at the ideas that they may be proposing since no sensory evidence of this exists.

    That a thinking predisposition would appear to be very cold and uncaring to a feeling preference. While a feeling tendency would appear to a thinker as almost sickeningly emotional.

    That a judging is in a rush to make a decision and is not comfortable until one is reached and a perceptive would tend to want more evidence from which to reach a decision.

    I don't equate a tendency to individualistic tendencies to an introvert or an extrovert since either can exhibit these tendencies. I equate indivualistic tendencies more to the arena of the personal ego.

    The other thing that I have always found fascinating about the Jungian typology is the "shadow". Until I encountered that I had a difficult time understanding how someone could change so drastically from their normal personality traits.

    I find that this whole matter is very interesting insofar as understanding not only ourselves but also our fellow human beings.

  10. #60

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    Quote Originally Posted by noblebeast
    Michael,

    Just follow the advice that helped me in my own spiritual quest. I believe it comes by way of Timothy Leary (an unimpeachable source for things "otherworldly"):

    Try out all the religions, then pick the parts you like and start your own. It's really cool - you get to make up your own dogma, or if you're allergic to dogmas change it to catma; create as many holidays as you like; and the best part is you can come up with your own really cool name for it. For example: Mine is "Joe Moe's First Church of Heavyosity." We have a sacrament that will blow your mind.

    Bless you, and the horse you rode in on...
    Ahh, a man after my own heart. The way I have it figured there is a lot of benefit to following this path. Timothy was a man ahead of his time...

    The tax implications are incredible. (There are none). Where else can one accumulate money, property and prestige without the government telling you that you need to share?



 

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