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  1. #61
    David R Munson's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcallow
    No Ed, what I was referring to was a period just prior to the impressionists. It wasn't a test of memory, but comment about, how what was perceived as fine art then didn't last the test of time and what allows something to last is how well it speaks to people regardless of their place (in time, and otherwise). Another ingredient would be the quality of the message.
    I don't see it as a matter of the art not standing the test of time. Through the passage of time, things are forgotten, good and bad. Whether or not something is remembered after a certain amount of time is not necessarily any indicator of quality at all. Granted, if your work is good, you're less likely to be forgotten than if your work is total crap, but you can still be forgotten in short order. Your technique, vision, message, etc can be phenomenal and you may still be left by the wayside ten years after the fact.

  2. #62
    jd callow's Avatar
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    bjorke,
    No arguments

    I was referring to the luminous landscapes painters and the grandiose historical and biblical painters that were all the rage in amongst the high minded 19th century intel elite. And without an Art survey book I couldn't name one.

    I should have been more specific and I was only trying to make the point that it is hard to say today what will survive tomorrow as art. I am also not advocating that the price an object sells for is the measure of its artistic value either.

    As mentioned in my post, I don't differentiate, necessarily between commercial and other artists. I’m offering a different test than: how pretty, how well crafted and how creative or unique.

    I would be very interested if you agree or disagree and why.

    But, if not, it is absolutely fine to pound away on the specifics of my post if you think I'm wrong.

    FWIW I think j.s. Sargent was as commercial as it gets, and no one who sees his work could deny how magnificent it is.

    I also whole heartedly agree that no movement was/is an island either. Although often the influences are reactionary as in abstract impressionism and pop art.

  3. #63
    jd callow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fugazi Dave

    I don't see it as a matter of the art not standing the test of time. Through the passage of time, things are forgotten, good and bad. Whether or not something is remembered after a certain amount of time is not necessarily any indicator of quality at all. Granted, if your work is good, you're less likely to be forgotten than if your work is total crap, but you can still be forgotten in short order. Your technique, vision, message, etc can be phenomenal and you may still be left by the wayside ten years after the fact.
    I agree. There was a german artist by the name of Max Beckman who many feel was one of the greatest painters of the 20th century. Seldom hear his name mentioned in any company.

    To a degree you have to assume that the cream will rise to the top and lament the ignored. Regardless, when you look at an object of art and it moves you -- success! If that object is 200 or 2000 years old all the better. And some art is so tied to its time or place that it will lose its relevance.

  4. #64

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    Quote Originally Posted by mrcallow
    I agree. There was a german artist by the name of Max Beckman who many feel was one of the greatest painters of the 20th century. Seldom hear his name mentioned in any company.
    a lot of artists who are very good even said to be "the best" are often forgotten. the same thing could be said about arshile gorky, who from all i have read about him was the founder of abstract surealism, and one of the first doing cubism --- and just the same only "art historians" know his name ...

  5. #65
    jd callow's Avatar
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    One of the saddest facts about art is that it is commercial in that consumer demand determines what is 'good.' The art community (as in those who sell, curate and critique) may infuriate but they don't lead as much as follow. I would love to think that if, as a culture, we went to gallerys on a sunday afternoon instead of watched the game of the day not only would fewer artists be forgotten, but more would be discovered and we would be a hell of a lot more demanding and decerning of the images thrust upon us from all venues as well as those we make. (I suspect that last sentance could have been three or four).

  6. #66
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    Actually, I am intending to go to SFMOMA on Sunday afternoon


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  7. #67
    David R Munson's Avatar
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    And I'm going to the MCA.

  8. #68
    jd callow's Avatar
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  9. #69
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    live music tonight and Amon Carter Museum tomorrow

    Just a note: I actually knew a number of the painters you were speaking of, but my art history education stems from 2 semesters of art history survey and my girlfriend's an art history major.
    Let's see what I've got in the magic trash can for Mateo!

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  10. #70

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    And I'm going to...

    work.


    As I do every weekend.

    Except for next weekend, when I will be shooting (FINALLY!). And the weekend after that as well. And all the time in between. Hopefully for the better part of 28 days (re-hab from this suburban life).

    sorry, I know this was completely off topic, but I had to share, man I'm anxious...

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