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  1. #21
    DKT
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    Quote Originally Posted by bjorke
    I do! I've had an ant colony appear inside a TLR, and I've lost an unfair number of lenses, slides, and negatives to fungus.

    ah, well, you know what the archivists say....nothing lasts forever....

    --says he who works with archivists & conservators.

  2. #22

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    Yeah me too...

    I get tired of hearing about the mystical qualities of light shining through a negative. If you've had to make your living shining light though a negative for hours at a time to deliver prints, the mystery and mystique fades rapidly as the hands of the clock turn inexorably forward.

    And yes, I actually like the tactile qualities associated with a black and white darkroom. The slippery feel of the developer, the sharp acidic smell of the stopbath and fixer. All bring back memories of the first time I was in a darkroom, and watched the magic of a print beginning to appear under the orange glow of the safelight.

    But, I do mostly color now. A color darkroom is a completely different experience. Hours in total darkness with no safelight. Being in the dark long enough that I can finally see a few things from the meeger illumination provided by the luminescent face of the GraLab timer. Babysitting the prints as they run through the roller transport processor. Not much mystique or mystery there.

    Finally, it comes down to aesthetics. I make big prints (30x36 and larger). Enlarged prints in a wet darkroom to that size just don't look as good as a digital print. Even with APO lenses and the most careful treatment, you can sense the slight lack of edge sharpness, contrast loss, and the color saturation goes down.

    So, yes I use digital printing and the images look better for it. There is as much craftsmanship (of a different kind) required to turn out an outstanding digital print as there is in waving your hands or dodging / burning tools under an enlarger lens. Since for me, the final print is a mental exercise of translating the image into a print, whether I do that in a darkroom or lightroom is immaterial. The chess game of moves is only different, and must be as carefully planned.

    The idea that the act of translation from analog to digital causes some loss of image "soul" - is laughable at best. If you're losing the image in some way when you turn it into a digital print - then your craftsmanship isn't very good - my suggestion is to work on that problem and use the best equipment available.

    Lastly, I really like ink printed images. I did photo lithographs 20 years ago trying to get my images to an ink printed state. That was never satisfactory because of the screening involved and the destruction of detail in the process. Inkjet printing finally has matured to a point where I get the ink printed look with detail, at a large size with no loss of sharpness, contrast or color saturation.

    If you get the final image you want, and the process compliments and enhances the image - whether it was done through analog or digital processes just doesn't matter.

    Bashing either analog or digital only demonstrates a lack of imagination and sensitivity for the best way to handle the ideas inherent within the image ; and choosing the best way to aesthetically translate that into the final print.

  3. #23
    Andy K's Avatar
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    APUG. The Analog Photography Users Group.

    If people want to read pro-digital imaging threads there are plenty of digital imaging sites.
    Last edited by Andy K; 08-03-2004 at 05:39 PM. Click to view previous post history.


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  4. #24
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    The idea that the act of translation from analog to digital causes some loss of image "soul" - is laughable at best.
    I know what you mean. I find high tech reproductions in the new Edward Weston book to be identical or better in every way to his actual 'real' prints. Why someone would buy a real print of Weston's is beyond me and laughable. No loss of 'soul' or value whatsoever in the reproductions because the final image is all that matters.

  5. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean
    I know what you mean. I find high tech reproductions in the new Edward Weston book to be identical or better in every way to his actual 'real' prints. Why someone would buy a real print of Weston's is beyond me and laughable. No loss of 'soul' or value whatsoever in the reproductions because the final image is all that matters.
    That is called grain. It is supposed to be there.
    =Neal W.=

  6. #26
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    From my (slightly uncomfortable) chair, in front of my monitor, I would prefer less anti-digital rants. Posts about the Analog process are why I visit this site, plenty of excellent and helpful info. And the vast majority of those who visit here are truly nice people. I am glad to have joined this group.
    But on the other hand, there have been, creeping in under the radar, a few pro-digital posts. If you like digital, fine. Please go to the myriad of digital sites to post your views.
    I want to read about film, film cameras, developing film and paper, the different chemicals and the pros and cons... analog analog analog... please please please.
    I have absolutely no interest, at all, in digital. This is not a qualitative judgement, just ain't interested, don't want to read about it.
    Enough said... gotta get back to that PMK Pyro thread.
    gene
    gene LaFord


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  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean
    Why someone would buy a real print of Weston's is beyond me and laughable.
    A good friend of mine owns quite a few of them. Some of Brett Weston's, too. Some are stunning, some are not so great.

    However, one of the Edward Westons he owns is exquisite beyond description. He's been offered more than 3 times what he paid for it, enough to buy a loaded S Class Mercedes. I don't think you'd laugh if you ever saw it. No reproduction can ever do it justice.

  8. #28
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    1. I think Sean was joking when he wrote that about Weston.

    2. I'm with papagene all the way. That is why I come to APUG. If I wanted to read about digital-imaging I would find a digital-imaging site. I too am not interested in the slightest in reading about ANY digital-imaging process, IT BORES ME. If you want to discuss computers go to a digital-imaging site. If you want to discuss photography then talk analog and shut up about digital-imaging.

    3. This is an ANALOG PHOTOGRAPHY forum. Lets keep it that way.

    If that sounds unfriendly it is because I have seen the digital disease creep into so many other sites in exactly the same way. I for one do not want to see that happen here. A line has to be drawn somewhere.


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    Anáil nathrach, ortha bháis is beatha, do chéal déanaimh.

  9. #29
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    Ofcourse, if you want to discuss digital, go to a digital forum. This is an analog forum, and lets keep it like that.

    But I launched this thread because I saw more and more analog members discussing digital in a negative sense. So, even while being analog photographers they were waisting their energy on anti-digital threads all the time. That's not what APUG was meant for I think.

    I don't mind the occasional digital item popping up when it's functional. But lets not waiste our time fighting digital photography. Lets get into the darkroom.

    Just my $ 0.02
    Wilbert
    http://www.photovergne.com
    Cours photo en Auvergne

  10. #30

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    Many photographers such as myself use hybrid methods ie
    film for capture, digital for printing. I get annoyed when I read posts rubbishing digital printing methods and the people who use them (There are a lot of these) many of these arguments are in my opinion emotive, and illogical.
    I thought this was a site for people who used film, thats why I come here.
    I sense people who use digital printing methods are not welcome at APUG.

    Robert

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