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  1. #11
    hoffy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Sherman View Post
    I would suggest that your lack of perceived talent was more about lack of passion in your pursuit. Talent is relative and subjective in the end.

    2 cents
    Sums it up perfectly.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Donmck View Post
    An excellent read! Thank you.
    At least with LF landscape, a bad day of photography can still be a good day of exercise.

  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp498 View Post
    I immediately disagreed, but really almost agree. I gave up on Piano after years of practice because I wasn't talented at it. I could read music, learn a song, practice, get the timing right, and after a while sorta play something like it should sound.
    It's not necessarily your talent that was the problem, environment and luck are real factors.

    I had a similar experience in frustration with skiing in my youth, enjoyed it a bunch, especially racing, and literally skied 6-7 days a week from the age of 8 when there was any snow, but I was not big or fast so the coaches in the clubs and schools I was in didn't spend much time on me. (At 16 1/2 I was 5'2" and 110 lbs. At graduation at 17 3/4 I was 6'1" and 175. Only 10lbs over that today at 53 )

    After high school I wanted to keep skiing cheap so I started teaching. I lucked into working for two guys that were race coaches and within a few weeks of starting to ski with these guys I started losing my bad habits and refining my skills. Inside a month I was faster than anyone in my high school or our rival schools.

    Once I got the right coaching and some polish I actually was encouraged and considered trying out for the pro circuit.

    By that time though my interests were changing, pressures from the family business were there, girls had entered my life, and I had figured out that skiing for a living was real work.

    I moved on.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  4. #14
    Marco B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Q.G. View Post
    Will you stop saying things that just make others look old!
    Well, to be honest, I blatantly and consciously ignored 20 years of "snapshot" photography... i am not that young...
    The 5-6 years of photography I wrote about was just the time I have been taking photography more seriously, about coinciding with my join date on APUG
    My website

    "The nineteenth century began by believing that what was reasonable was true, and it wound up by believing that what it saw a photograph of, was true." - William M. Ivins Jr.

    "I don't know, maybe we should disinvent color, and we could just shoot Black & White." - David Burnett in 1978

    "Analog is chemistry + physics, digital is physics + math, which ones did you like most?"

  5. #15
    johnnywalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Sherman View Post
    I would suggest that your lack of perceived talent was more about lack of passion in your pursuit. Talent is relative and subjective in the end.

    2 cents
    I disagree. People have different genes, a combination of which may give them a talent for music, art, sports, languages, etc. We can't all aspire to be another Mozart, Rembrandt or Jack Nicklaus no matter how hard we work at it.
    If I had been present at the creation, I would have given some useful hints for the better arrangement of the Universe.
    Alfonso the Wise, 1221-1284

  6. #16
    jp498's Avatar
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    I too have to agree talent trumps hard work sometimes. Some people don't think there is such a thing as talent, but I'm not among them. If I were basing it entirely on my own experiences, that is not a sufficient or objective explanation.

    I've run a business for 15 years and hired many people over the years for many tasks. Some people have a natural ability for certain skills, others don't. Sometimes it takes hard work to develop that skill, but for others, the hard work is better directed to something else they are skilled at. Some people have, some don't have talents for languages, money, math, sales, computer programming, auto repair/troubleshooting, organizing, graphic design, etc... I think most people have latent talents that are infrequently used or inadequately developed, or are impeded by their choices. The hard work and/or high quality training must be focused on a talent, not just trying to make someone into somebody they aren't.

  7. #17
    Steve Sherman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jp498 View Post
    I too have to agree talent trumps hard work sometimes. Some people don't think there is such a thing as talent, but I'm not among them.
    As I indicated in my prior post, talent is relative and subject, and therefore what successes one takes from their efforts are also subjective and personal. Not everyone seeks to be world class and can therefore be very successful and satisfied with the fruits their talents reap.

    Consider for a moment, Michael Jordan the basketball player has never been considered to be the most physically gifted player however his unbridled passion for winning and competition elevated his considerable God given talent to the status of the "Greatest who ever lived" by most accounts.

    Another view

    BTW, second the vote on a great read on two types of geniuses.
    Real Photographs are Born Wet !
    http://www.steve-sherman.com

  8. #18

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    Quote Originally Posted by johnnywalker View Post
    I disagree. People have different genes, a combination of which may give them a talent for music, art, sports, languages, etc. We can't all aspire to be another Mozart, Rembrandt or Jack Nicklaus no matter how hard we work at it.
    That's probably true, but I'm not sure it's what was originally meant in this thread. We probably *can* all aspire to be a "competent" composer, painter, or golfer, for some reasonable value of "competent" and with a few caveats about basic prerequisites (e.g., it's unlikely that someone without arms will play much golf, though they certainly could paint or compose).

    Also, you said "no matter how hard we work at it", and I wonder if that's a meaningful formulation. I suspect Jack Nicklaus has worked a whole lot harder on golf than I ever could have, simply because I don't much *like* golf and couldn't possibly sustain the interest and energy to keep at it with the kind of focus that's required to develop elite professional skills at anything. (In my defence, I bet he would feel much the same about wireless systems engineering.)

    How much of---pick a favourite photographer; I was going to say Andre Kertesz---is really attributable to a native, inborn "talent", and how much to a lifetime of sustained work; not just "take a lot of pictures" work, but "take a lot of pictures and consider the results carefully and think about photography and composition first thing in the morning and last thing at night and most things in between" work? I'm not sure if there even *is* an answer.

    (Personally, I think John Mellencamp's early work suffers a bit from over-perfectionism and I might have liked the discarded takes better.)

    -NT
    Nathan Tenny
    San Diego, CA, USA

    The lady of the house has to be a pretty swell sort of person to put up with the annoyance of a photographer.
    -The Little Technical Library, _Developing, Printing, And Enlarging_

  9. #19
    johnnywalker's Avatar
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    Your genes mark the upper and lower limits. Where you end up in between depends on your environment and dedication.
    If I had been present at the creation, I would have given some useful hints for the better arrangement of the Universe.
    Alfonso the Wise, 1221-1284

  10. #20
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    i dont believe in this "natural" stuff at all
    Ive known some good athletes that i knew could be better

    but they quit and always quit even if becoming great is something they had always wanted


    look at the recent youtube clip of basketball star rookie tyreke evans swinging a club
    or barkley

    both are great basketball players
    youd think someone with that much "natural" athletic ability could at least hit the ball
    but he cant...not in numerous attempts
    evans has no idea how to even swing the club
    even stand in a way that will allow him to make the purposeful swing he doesn't know how to make
    hit the ball? with any direction? years of solid practice away

    theyre specialists

    evans more so than barkley

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