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  1. #21
    Ektagraphic's Avatar
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    I feel if one is going to print inkjet, why even bother with film at all? I would never and will never buy a print from someone else on inkjet.
    Helping to save analog photography one exposure at a time

  2. #22
    Worker 11811's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keithwms View Post
    There is such a tremendous need to educate the customer, if you really plan to make a decent income traditional prints. I think a big, big part of that is not to mat and frame but instead to let the customer see the paper, feel the paper, see the edges, see the camera....
    A very intersting thought.

    Until now, I haven't thought seriously about selling photos. I have entertained the idea but never followed through. Photography is personal to me. I have only given photos to friends and family. Never seriously thought of selling.

    But, now, my income is tight. I am thinking of selling photography more seriously than before. Even though I don't feel 100% comfortable with selling photos to strangers, I feel that I need to ino rder to make ends meet. Consequently, I have been thinking of ways to present photos that would be unique and interesting to people so that they would buy.

    Your idea... Don't sell framed photos... seems like it could be that unique and interesting presentation I have been looking for.

    So, what If I (or any traditional photographer) sold matted but unframed prints?
    Not dry mounted. Matted up with T-hinge mounts, a backer board and a windowed matte just like it would be if it was in a frame... Just without the wood/metal and glass??

    Would that be a formal enough presentation that such a photo could hang beside other fully framed photos yet still offer the potential buyer the opportunity to see that he has a "real photograph" in his hand?

    Of course, the buyer could elect to have his photo framed, either on his own or by me at appropriate price markup.

    What do you think?
    Randy S.

    In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni.

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    http://www.flickr.com/photos/randystankey/

  3. #23
    keithwms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Worker 11811 View Post
    Even though I don't feel 100% comfortable with selling photos to strangers, I feel that I need to in order to make ends meet.
    That is really nice to read: your work is personal and that gives you concerns about showing it to strangers. I think that is rather unusual, and valuable. I know so much middle-of-the-road, impersonal photography (some of it my own, I freely admit). It sounds like showing your work might be helpful for reasons other than financial.

    Quote Originally Posted by Worker 11811 View Post
    Your idea... Don't sell framed photos... seems like it could be that unique and interesting presentation I have been looking for.

    So, what If I (or any traditional photographer) sold matted but unframed prints?
    Not dry mounted. Matted up with T-hinge mounts, a backer board and a windowed matte just like it would be if it was in a frame... Just without the wood/metal and glass??

    Would that be a formal enough presentation that such a photo could hang beside other fully framed photos yet still offer the potential buyer the opportunity to see that he has a "real photograph" in his hand?

    Of course, the buyer could elect to have his photo framed, either on his own or by me at appropriate price markup.

    What do you think?
    That's a good idea, why not try it out and see. Or perhaps just float the prints loosely on top of some backing, with no mat at all. Whatever works best with your images and isn't the same as what everybody else does.

    I'll just add, my comment wasn't so much about selling prints as much as exhibiting them. I have never quite understood why most photographers so willingly obscure their work behind mats and glass. Is it really to protect the print, or just because it's what everybody else does?

    In any case, whatever you do that sets your work apart from the pack and lets people appreciate it more directly will probably benefit you. Besides that, when you need to set up a lot of prints, frames can be damn expensive!
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

    [APUG Portfolio] [APUG Blog] [Website]

  4. #24

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    I don't know why we must be so rigid in thinking, silver based = good, anything digital = bad. Being fully aware this IS an analog photography site, but still, aren't we photographers first then choice of our media is analog? If someone appreciates your art but can't afford silver based prints, should his/her appreciation for your art be disregarded as misguided or not worthy? Even in old days, many photographers, nationally very famous ones included, offered offset print posters and silver prints. Today, I see many offer posters, inkjets, and silver. Even Ansel Adams offer (yes, the REAL ones) both.

    I fully understand, the photographer will have to make a choice and it's his/her choice alone. But even artist has to eat and make income. It's not purely art or purely business - individuals will have to strike a good balance.

    I *prefer* silver prints. I think the rendition of tonality and surface texture is MUCH superior to anything else. But, if I wanted to have prints of giants, such as AA or such, I can't possibly afford the real thing. Even lesser of giants ask significant amount of money for silver prints. I *think* there is something to be said by appreciating those who appreciate your art - at a level they can afford and at a level they can understand.
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  5. #25
    Sirius Glass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkamiya View Post
    I don't know why we must be so rigid in thinking, silver based = good, anything digital = bad.
    [Rant Mode]
    I deal with black & white! I do not see gray! One and the other; nothing in between!
    [/Rant Mode]

    Warning!! Handling a Hasselblad can be harmful to your financial well being!

    Nothing beats a great piece of glass!

    I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.

  6. #26

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    That's a very contrasting thought....
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

  7. #27
    Sirius Glass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tkamiya View Post
    That's a very contrasting thought....
    I thought you would enjoy that.

    Control is turned back to the scheduled topic.

    Steve
    Warning!! Handling a Hasselblad can be harmful to your financial well being!

    Nothing beats a great piece of glass!

    I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.

  8. #28
    MaximusM3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ektagraphic View Post
    I feel if one is going to print inkjet, why even bother with film at all? I would never and will never buy a print from someone else on inkjet.
    Patrick,

    Well, that's simple. Because a scanned negative, and especially medium format, is still better than any digi-crap, over-manipulated, Photoshopped to death, image.

    Max

  9. #29
    Worker 11811's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by keithwms View Post
    That is really nice to read: your work is personal and that gives you concerns about showing it to strangers. I think that is rather unusual, and valuable. I know so much middle-of-the-road, impersonal photography (some of it my own, I freely admit). It sounds like showing your work might be helpful for reasons other than financial.

    ...

    I'll just add, my comment wasn't so much about selling prints as much as exhibiting them. I have never quite understood why most photographers so willingly obscure their work behind mats and glass. Is it really to protect the print, or just because it's what everybody else does?

    In any case, whatever you do that sets your work apart from the pack and lets people appreciate it more directly will probably benefit you. Besides that, when you need to set up a lot of prints, frames can be damn expensive!
    Thanks!

    Let me tell you a story. It will shed lights on several things.

    In 1993, I put two 8x10 b/w photos in the county fair. They were dry mounted and hung as per fair rules. I liked them and I thought they were some of my better work but I had no illusions about winning top prize.

    (Besides, what's top prize at a county fair? $10.00?)

    On judging day, I went in to see which photos won awards. I didn't get any. I was disappointed, of course. You don't put an entry into the fair unless you want to win. Right? But it was more of an "Aw, shucks..." moment than a real disappointment.

    I wasn't really upset until I looked around at the rest of the photos and saw which ones did win awards.

    NO black and white photos won any award.
    NO unframed photos won any award.
    NONE of the name cards that you affix to the back had any scores or judges intials written on them. Basically, the judges walked down the row and pointed out their picks and ignored the rest.

    There were several photos there that were better than mine. If I was one of the judges, I probably would have given my photos honorable mention or, maybe, third place. Tops.

    The photo that did win was a a picture of a cat, lying on the floor. It was out of focus, taken with an instamatic, disposable, "one-shot" camera. It was in one of those gaudy-ass Wal-Mart frames.

    I made some comments about the situation to people I knew. (Not strangers. Not the judges.) I just got treated like I was being a spoil sport, even after I showed them pictures that were better than mine which did not win.

    I was really pissed off. I left that night. I came back at the end of fair week and picked up my stuff. Since then, I have set foot on the fair grounds, maybe, one time in 17 years.

    I put my camera in the closet and I took only a few photos in that time period. I bundled up all my negatives and prints and stored them in the attic.

    I dabbled with digital photos but I never really got into it. I have a Canon "Digital Elph" camera. It's about 10 years old, now. I never really had the gumption or the money to buy a good digital camera.

    The reason I picked up photography again is because, right around Christmas time, my brother's apartment building burned down. He lost almost everything. Strangely enough, one of the few things that survived the fire was his photo collection.

    I volunteered to help rescue his photos. It took me a couple of weeks to stabilize them and get them put in archival albums and make them safe again.

    As I was going through my brother's photos, I started getting the desire to go through my own photo collection. I found a couple of them that I really liked. I rediscovered a few that I didn't think much of at the time but, when I looked at them again after 15 years, I thought they were good.

    I also found some boxes of my father's old negatives that I inherited when he died 20-something years ago. There are more than 100 4x5 negs and lots of 120 rollfilm.

    I've been taking my own photos and making my own prints again, only since January of 2010. I took a severe cut to my income last month and I have to think of ways to make ends meet. That's the reason I am giving serious thought to selling photos to others. I need to do something.

    Bottom line: I'd rather have 100 people tell me that my photos suck than to have 1 person tell me they are good. I'd rather not make any photos at all than to make a dozen and have nobody comment at all.

    I have never met another person who understood this. Maybe my father understood. That's probably why I never saw many of his photos until after he died. But, outside of that, most people probably think I'm strange to feel this way.

    I'm going to go get some matte board and some cloth tape and matte up a few prints and see how they look.
    Who knows? Maybe this could be my nitche?
    Last edited by Worker 11811; 08-31-2010 at 11:12 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    Randy S.

    In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni.

    -----

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/randystankey/

  10. #30
    keithwms's Avatar
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    Just beware that some clients really do want ready-to-go, matted and framed prints that they can hang immediately on their wall. And you can of course profit from that, as long as it's clear that they can get that from you.
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

    [APUG Portfolio] [APUG Blog] [Website]

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