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  1. #71

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    Quote Originally Posted by BetterSense View Post
    No, not at all. Completely wrong. Because when they invented photography, they they came up with a new word..."Photography". They did not sell photographs as paintings, and they did not market themselves as painters.
    "Photographer" and "Photography" are just words. Words, by their very nature, are mere estimations of various facets of reality and thought. To say that because the first photographers invented a new word to describe what they do does not invalidate my point. The first photographers devalued the portrait and landscape painting market because they could provide a photorealistic image of what people wanted quicker and less expensive than painters could.

    Its a fair bet that the painters from that era who were making a living off their art, and the "purists" of their day were just as upset and discriminatory towards photography as a lot of people here are towards digital photography.

    Really, though, who cares what we call digital photography. Call it photography, digital photography, not-photography, pixelography, or just plain crap, who cares; its just a word. Accept that people use digital sensors and computers to capture images and move on. Keep doing what you do, do it well and love it, but live and let live.
    ~ Michelle

  2. #72

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    I think the schism people are experiencing here is really over the definition of photography.

    Is photography defined by its ends or its means? What is more important, the process or the end product?

    If you believe that photography is defined by the process, and not by the photograph, then I can at least understand where the "digital is not photography" crowd is coming from, but even still its a weak argument.

    Are non-silver, alternative processes not photography because they use a different process than what you've used in your own photography? Surely if the process is what makes photography what it is, then anything than is non-traditional can not be considered photography, right?

    What about the many people who shoot film and scan their negatives/transparencies to print digitally? They are taking analog information and turning it into pixels, in much the same way that a digital sensor does. A digital sensor turns radiation into digital information via photo sensitive cells. Scanning is just using film to store this analog information before it becomes digital. Is this not photography?

    And if you believe, like I do, that the most important part of photography, objectively speaking, is the picture you produce, then I can see no argument to discredit digital. An excellent digital photo is infinitely better than a crappy photo taken on any sort of film.

    Going back to my previous post about it just being a name...
    It is, to me, all "photography." This is the word that we have chosen to describe the making of a photograph. It is a broad term, which encompasses multiple disciplines. You may not like the breadth of the word, but too bad; society has chosen that word to include everything from daguerreotype to point and shoot digitals. The word can be modified to be more specific by saying "film photography" or "digital photography," but it all falls under the word "photography."
    ~ Michelle

  3. #73
    BetterSense's Avatar
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    If you believe that photography is defined by the process, and not by the photograph, then I can at least understand where the "digital is not photography" crowd is coming from
    You have it backward. I don't believe that photography is defined by the process, but rather the product. I don't really care what process somebody used, so long as they label their work properly, logically, and consistently.

    Are non-silver, alternative processes not photography because they use a different process than what you've used in your own photography? Surely if the process is what makes photography what it is, then anything than is non-traditional can not be considered photography, right?
    Uh, no. If it is painted onto with light, it's a photograph. Very simple. You are trying to complicatify it when it's very simple. Painted onto with light=photograph.

    What about the many people who shoot film and scan their negatives/transparencies to print digitally?
    Their negatives are photographs, their digital prints are not. Their digital prints might be images of a photograph but aren't photographs themselves, the same way that an image of a wheelbarrow is not actually a wheelbarrow.

    An excellent digital photo is infinitely better than a crappy photo taken on any sort of film.
    A subjective value judgement, that I'm not interested in here. I only want people to honestly label what it is that they hang on the wall.
    f/22 and be there.

  4. #74
    coigach's Avatar
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    I love APUG dearly, and have learned a lot from participating in it, but strewth, these frequent and circular 'definition' conversations begin to sound like radio static after a while...

    Making great photographs that pull the viewer in and emotionally involve people is surely the name of the game? - then people want to know the 'how' and 'what' questions...
    Last edited by coigach; 12-03-2010 at 09:09 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  5. #75
    Christopher Walrath's Avatar
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    Just make photographs and let history decide what's important. If it's important to you on a personal level, that's all that matters.
    Thank you.
    CWalrath
    APUG BLIND PRINT EXCHANGE
    DE Darkroom

    "Wubba, wubba, wubba. Bing, bang, bong. Yuck, yuck, yuck and a fiddle-dee-dee." - The Yeti

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