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  1. #21
    Ian Leake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    Ecchh, please don't equate Alice Waters and analog photography! Rather than "slow" photography, I much prefer "chemical" photography since that's really what we're talking about. The "slow" food analogy just doesn't work on any level for me, nor does it clarify the separation from digital. Anyone spending hours at a computer futzing in CS5 with colour correction or tone mapping knows the meaning of "slow" all too well.
    I don't see that "Slow" only refers to the time spent doing something (driving a golf buggy to work would be slow but not Slow). It's as much about a philosophy or a state of mind as it is about the rate of work.

    In our interconnected, "always on" world it's sometimes good to step back, return to first principles, and make a conscious decision to invest yourself in what you're doing. Learning to do something yourself (rather than rely on the wizardry of software engineers) is Slow; and it's immensely rewarding.

    And I wouldn't agree that there's a specific analogue/chemical versus digital angle. Blasting off 10 rolls of film and shipping them away to the lab isn't Slow (even if it's slow).

    Is Slow the only way of doing things? Of course not. But it's a good way.

  2. #22
    Mainecoonmaniac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Leake View Post
    I don't see that "Slow" only refers to the time spent doing something (driving a golf buggy to work would be slow but not Slow). It's as much about a philosophy or a state of mind as it is about the rate of work.

    In our interconnected, "always on" world it's sometimes good to step back, return to first principles, and make a conscious decision to invest yourself in what you're doing. Learning to do something yourself (rather than rely on the wizardry of software engineers) is Slow; and it's immensely rewarding.

    And I wouldn't agree that there's a specific analogue/chemical versus digital angle. Blasting off 10 rolls of film and shipping them away to the lab isn't Slow (even if it's slow).

    Is Slow the only way of doing things? Of course not. But it's a good way.
    It is good. Most of our attention spans are getting shorter. Some always trying go get "ahead" with the latest. There seems to be an arms race in the profession of photography of getting the latest technology to have an edge. This attitude has also seeped into the area of hobbyist and amateurs. I have to admit that when I was a professional, I was in that race to upgrade too. After the market dropped of the commercial market, I switched careers. Luckily, I didn't dump my analog camera and darkroom gear and slowly started shooting and printing again. You can invest your money and time into analog photography and not have it evaporate our digital environment. You can have a long attention span with analog photography and do it Slow.

  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainecoonmaniac View Post
    You can have a long attention span with analog photography and do it Slow.
    To be fair, you *can* do that with the Other Capture Medium too. Technology that's pointed at "faster and more convenient" makes it more difficult (but that applies in film-land too, and I suspect the wet-plate folks were saying the same thing about those ridiculous newfangled dry plates).

    I think there's a stronger nexus between "Slow" and the serious attempt to perpetrate art than between "Slow" and any particular medium.

    -NT
    Nathan Tenny
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    The lady of the house has to be a pretty swell sort of person to put up with the annoyance of a photographer.
    -The Little Technical Library, _Developing, Printing, And Enlarging_

  4. #24
    Dan Henderson's Avatar
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    The more that I think about the "Slow" food/photography/bread making/fill-in-the-blank movement, the more I am reminded of the Amish people that I grew up around. They eschew modern appliances and conveniences, preferring to use traditional tools that have stood the test of time. They have a reputation for craftsmanship. They tend to band together in small communities and speak a language not understood by outsiders. They spend considerable amounts of time in places without electric lights burning.

    So maybe I will begin thinking of myself as an Amish Photographer. Not a photographer of the Amish, they have that graven-image issue. But no one ever said an Amishman couldn't be behind the camera. And, I would have Photographer's Rumspringa to look forward to!


    web site: Dan Henderson, Photographer.com

    blog: https://danhendersonphotographer.wordpress.com/

    I am not anti-digital. I am pro-film.

  5. #25
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mainecoonmaniac View Post
    After reading Sea Photo's thread going back to "Real photography", I'm wondering if there's an the same movement with foodies called "Slow Food" movement started in Italy. The commonality is returning to old methods because the new methods of production doesn't yield the same quality. Am I way off base here?
    Yes. This and most subsequent comments are ensnared in a "fallacy of perfect analogy," where a partial resemblance between two things is taken to be a complete resemblance which, in this case, it isn't. The arguments made here tend to assume that "slow food" and some form of chemical/analogue imaging are analogous in some ways. They also assume "slow food" is a good thing, therefore chemical/analogue imaging is also a good thing. Simply put, a partial resemblance gets converted into what logicians call an identity, which it isn't. Interesting arguments so far, except that they're not logically informed or even very convincing.

  6. #26

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    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    . They also assume "slow food" is a good thing, therefore chemical/analogue imaging is also a good thing.
    I think this is untrue, at least for me. The bread I make tastes good and I enjoy making it, so I think it's good. I also think film photography is good - but it was also good 15 years ago before I started making bread and the bread was good three years ago during a spell away from photography. There's no causation here.
    Steve.

  7. #27
    Ian Leake's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    Yes. This and most subsequent comments are ensnared in a "fallacy of perfect analogy," where a partial resemblance between two things is taken to be a complete resemblance which, in this case, it isn't. The arguments made here tend to assume that "slow food" and some form of chemical/analogue imaging are analogous in some ways. They also assume "slow food" is a good thing, therefore chemical/analogue imaging is also a good thing. Simply put, a partial resemblance gets converted into what logicians call an identity, which it isn't. Interesting arguments so far, except that they're not logically informed or even very convincing.
    Finding both concepts attractive need not be as illogical as you suggest. I am attracted to the idea of getting back to basics, taking my time, and creating something by my own hand. It's therefore entirely natural that I should be attracted to both Slow Food and a similar ideal in photography. For me the analogy, however imperfect, is attractive because it links two things which appeal to me; it reflects my world view. That's neither illogical nor a foolish fallacy.

    One thing I've learnt in over 20 years of working with all sorts of different people from different cultures, is that when someone says something I don't understand or acts in a way that confuses me, the first thing I should check is that I haven't made the mistake of assuming that everyone is like me.

    When we make the mistake of assuming that, "everyone is like me," we tend to dismiss other people's opinions and arguments as foolish and illogical, rather than trying to understand what's behind them. Are you sure you're not making this mistake?

  8. #28
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Leake View Post
    Finding both concepts attractive need not be as illogical as you suggest. I am attracted to the idea of getting back to basics, taking my time, and creating something by my own hand. It's therefore entirely natural that I should be attracted to both Slow Food and a similar ideal in photography. For me the analogy, however imperfect, is attractive because it links two things which appeal to me; it reflects my world view. That's neither illogical nor a foolish fallacy.

    One thing I've learnt in over 20 years of working with all sorts of different people from different cultures, is that when someone says something I don't understand or acts in a way that confuses me, the first thing I should check is that I haven't made the mistake of assuming that everyone is like me.

    When we make the mistake of assuming that, "everyone is like me," we tend to dismiss other people's opinions and arguments as foolish and illogical, rather than trying to understand what's behind them. Are you sure you're not making this mistake?
    That's a bit of a truism. The argument being made here is that they're identical. They're not and that's where the fallacy is. I rely on multinational companies to supply me with hardware, chemistry, paper, and film. Unlike turnips or free range chickens, these items aren't produced within 100 miles(or less)of my home, sadly. Michael Pollan or Carlo Petrini don't have much to say to me about photography, whether analogue or digital.

  9. #29

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    I don't think anybody here has so far attempted to claim the Slow Food Movement and film photography are identical. What I see is a number of posts where people are picking up on themes that are similar in both. For me it was time, for Ian it was about a state of mind, for Keith it was about craft, for Ian Grant it was pace, and for ntenny it was the theme of de-commodification.
    Steve.

  10. #30

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    Whatever is going on, people are certainly buying film too slowly for it to stay around all that much longer. Every six months we get new horrifying discontinuances. What we need is fast photography, but using film.
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

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