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  1. #11

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    If it were me, I would list everything that transpired and send it to him. Ask him for a refund with the caveat that you will post all that transpired here.

    There really should be a "Hall of Shame" forum to help others steer clear from thieves.

  2. #12

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    I went around eBay because I saw he was posting some paper there that didn't sell, so I asked him if he had any other stuff. He said yes and gave me a list. I thought I'd save some money that way 'cause he wouldn't have to take photos, post on ebay, pay fees, etc. and I could haggle a little over the price. It really didn't work out, obviously. It's a very good lesson learned and I know others have learned the hard way with worse losses (I had a friend buy a $1500 Hasselblad Fisheye who got ripped off). I'm pretty sure he never used eBay again after that.

    What baffles me is that this guy said "he was a pro and knows his stuff" and that "the partial boxes were only partial to test a few prints" and he owns a company. I didn't think going around ebay was a big deal in that case and Paypaling as "gift" to get a discounted price. When you use your credentials and reputation and guarantee something, you should honor it. Even though I tested all the other stuff later on, it was agreed upon by me and him that he would still honor an exchange.

  3. #13
    chriscrawfordphoto's Avatar
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    This is why you should never, ever buy film or paper from another photographer. Only buy from established stores like Calumet. Freestyle, Adorama, and B&H and you won't have troubles with scammers selling you outdated or fogged or misrepresented paper.
    Chris Crawford
    Fine Art Photography of Indiana and other places no one else photographs.

    http://www.chriscrawfordphoto.com

    My Tested Developing Times with the films and developers I use

    Become a fan of my work on Facebook

    Fort Wayne, Indiana

  4. #14
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Paul Sorensen View Post
    I guess I am not philosophically opposed to outing the guy for this kind of mistreatment, since there are precious few other options, but I know that there are a lot of folks who would not agree with me on that.
    I would name him without hesitation but I would make sure that everything I stated about him was true.

    It's not libel if it's the truth!


    Steve.

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by chriscrawfordphoto View Post
    This is why you should never, ever buy film or paper from another photographer.
    I wouldn't go that far, but it's certainly a good reason for a major "caveat emptor" attitude. I've bought a fair amount of film from other "private citizen" photographers, but it's always been with the possibility in mind that it could turn out to be a complete flop.

    Plus, the fact that the guy in question apparently *does* have a business makes it even less clear-cut. It would be a shame if we all quit supporting small photo businesses because they might turn out to be crooked.

    -NT
    Nathan Tenny
    San Diego, CA, USA

    The lady of the house has to be a pretty swell sort of person to put up with the annoyance of a photographer.
    -The Little Technical Library, _Developing, Printing, And Enlarging_

  6. #16
    Sethasaurus's Avatar
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    Actually, it's a shame that UPS won't ship a flaming bag of shit.
    Maybe someone out there will fill that niche someday...

  7. #17
    ann
    ann is online now

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    i just spent the morning test a whole stack of boxes of paper that someone gave the school, as i want to sell them . It would never cross my mind to pass off paper without doing so, unless , I knew it's history and even then things can go south without anyone being aware.

    A lot of stores have signs that say "light sensitive materials cannot be returned. However, someone who says they will guarantee a product , should do so.
    http://www.aclancyphotography.com

  8. #18
    MattKing's Avatar
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    As ann said, it isn't the paper that is the problem, it is the breach of the "guarantee" promise.

    Your legal remedy most likely would be determined by the laws in place where the seller does business. If the paper was shipped across state lines, as I understand it, there may be federal law issues involved (US posters here would be more likely to know than I). How much would you say you are out of pocket? That might determine whether a small debts court action would be worthwhile.

    The critical issue would be the terms of the "guarantee" (actually a warranty).

    If the seller has an internet presence, than public "outing" may be your most effective remedy.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  9. #19

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    Quote Originally Posted by MattKing View Post
    Your legal remedy most likely would be determined by the laws in place where the seller does business. If the paper was shipped across state lines, as I understand it, there may be federal law issues involved (US posters here would be more likely to know than I). How much would you say you are out of pocket? That might determine whether a small debts court action would be worthwhile.
    Federal law isn't interested in a bunch of fogged paper. The seller can even claim that the buyer mishandled it.

    Did all of the contact with the seller occur through email? If so, was there ever an enumeration of what would be received (i.e. boxes of 50)?

    As far as Paypal goes, do they even allow use of a CC when making a gift payment? I thought gifts were limited to the PayPal balance or a direct withdrawal from a linked checking account. If that's the case, there won't be any help from your CC company.

    BTW, neither eBay nor PayPal will help you after 45 days from payment, so you'd be stuck with the untested paper regardless of how you bought it.

  10. #20

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    I hate to say this but since you waited few months even after finding out one box was fogged, I doubt there is much you can do to remedy the situation. As I understand it, lawsuits (in this case, a small claims court case) can be filed where business was conducted. In this case, it can be either the seller's location or buyer's location. So, technically, you can sue him in your state and you know he isn't going to show up. The problem is, then what....? You'll win by default but, you still need to collect from him. That too, will cost you money.

    I understand you are angry but as my attorney would say there is such thing as "legal economy" where it makes no sense to pursue further because doing so will only cost you time, money, and aggravation far in excess of potential benefit.
    Develop, stop, fix.... wait.... where's my film?

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