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  1. #1
    rcam72's Avatar
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    Court Rules That Richard Prince Ripped Off Patrick Cariou

    Just read this and wondered what everybody else thought:

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2011...pyright-breach

    Prince's adaptation brings into question where the line between copyright infringement and fair use is. I think the exposure for analog photographers to situations like this one would tend to be that of original creators and would probably lead to a bias against Prince. I'm on the fence regarding wether or not his work can be considered original or not.

    I definitely didn't like Prince's lawyer arguing that Cariou's photos were "mere compilations of facts … arranged with minimum creativity" WTF. Drawing scribbles on someone else's work is though?

    I'm also wondering if the destruction of the works was Cariou's request in the lawsuit or the judges order. It isn't clear from the article and I'm not familiar enough with copyright law to know who decides the penalty in such cases. I'm used to the plaintiffs asking for tons o' dough so I'm guessing it was Cariou's. I'da gone for the payday. All in singles so I could fill a pool with it and pull a Scrooge McDuck.

    Any thoughts,

    Raul

  2. #2
    SuzanneR's Avatar
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    It's about time. And that comment... "a mere compilation of facts...." is part of the reason photography, especially documentary photography, gets so little respect among the art world. And it's ironic that Prince's lawyer makes such a case, when Prince himself admits he has no skills with the camera or the darkroom, and uses some minilab to make his xeroxed copies.

  3. #3
    Rick A's Avatar
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    Justice served! The judge should also order Prince and the gallery owner to walk up and down 5th Ave. wearing signs telling that they are thieves.

    Hmm... wonder if someone will have to repay patrons for bogus art?
    Last edited by Rick A; 03-24-2011 at 06:43 AM. Click to view previous post history. Reason: wonder...
    Rick A
    Argentum aevum
    BTW: the big kid in my avatar is my hero, my son, who proudly serves us in the Navy. "SALUTE"

  4. #4
    bsdunek's Avatar
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    Agree that justice was served. Seems like a simple case to me. Also, the gallery should have known better.
    Bruce

    Moma don't take my Kodachrome away!
    Oops, Kodak just did!


    BruceCSdunekPhotography.zenfolio.com

  5. #5

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    Quote Originally Posted by rcam72 View Post
    Prince's adaptation brings into question where the line between copyright infringement and fair use is.
    Well, yes, that's why there was a lawsuit. The law itself doesn't specify very precisely where the line is; the question is settled in court (or out of court, as in the Fairey case).

    I'm on the fence regarding wether or not his work can be considered original or not.
    It's not really a question of originality. It's a matter of using someone else's work without permission. Fair use law recognizes that there are circumstances where that is legitimate, and lays out certain guidelines. This didn't pass. It's derivative within the meaning of copyright law. It's quite possible for a new work (say a movie adaptation of a book to give a common example) to be very different from the original and still be an adaptation that is not covered by fair use.

    There's a good discussion of the case over here:

    http://www.aphotoeditor.com/2011/03/...-use-argument/

  6. #6
    lxdude's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SuzanneR View Post
    It's about time. And that comment... "a mere compilation of facts...." is part of the reason photography, especially documentary photography, gets so little respect among the art world.
    Such stunning arrogance! His attitude is that the photos were nothing but raw material for a "real artist". The guy scribbles on someone else's photos and now it's some kind of great art, and people pay big bucks for the ugly juvenile crap. Damned if I can understand it.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  7. #7
    Sirius Glass's Avatar
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    Justice served! About time! I hope that this law suit not only wipe out Richard Prince and the Gagosian, but also destroys their careers. The judge was bang on on her decision and this will be upheld on appeals.

    Steve
    Warning!! Handling a Hasselblad can be harmful to your financial well being!

    Nothing beats a great piece of glass!

    I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.

  8. #8
    jovo's Avatar
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    Once again I quote the artist James L. McElhinney: "Art has gotten a bad name as the realm of unctuous charlatans, greedy dealers and their glamortrash clientele--the hang of smartypants fish-wrapper scribblers and toot-brained mummies who dress like Johnny Cash. As cartoon-like as it seems..., the fashionable art world constitutes a tiny fraction of the comprehensive art world, but it has plenty of money behind it."

    We, who wait for the "art" establishment to decree what is and isn't, are fools when we do so.
    John Voss

    My Blog

  9. #9
    lxdude's Avatar
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    Great quote, John.

    Actually, quotes. Your comment as well.
    I do use a digital device in my photographic pursuits when necessary.
    When someone rags on me for using film, I use a middle digit, upraised.

  10. #10
    MattKing's Avatar
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    "And that comment... "a mere compilation of facts...." is part of the reason photography, especially documentary photography, gets so little respect among the art world."

    I don't disagree that the argument doesn't hold water in the real world (or is it the art world?).

    But it isn't art criticism, it is a legal argument. It deals with the legal meaning of phrases that have a legal context, and are the subject of many legal decisions.

    I don't know, but think that I am safe in guessing, that there are cases where "mere compilations of facts" are not entitled to the protection of copyright. The legal argument being made is that Patrick Cariou's work is more like those "compilations" than original pieces of art.

    When one makes legal arguments, one hopes to gain the benefit of any uncertainty there may be in the factual situation. In this case, clearly there wasn't any such uncertainty.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

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