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Thread: TANSTAAFL

  1. #11

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    that is exactly how i process my film
    i put it in a tank,
    i pour water in first, dump it,
    then developer ...
    walk away for 30mins
    and they come out great ...

    works fine for me ... but i still have to pay for my lunch
    john

  2. #12
    MattKing's Avatar
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    I've always thought of film as a sometimes harsh mistress

    I agree that much of the beauty of "analogue" photography comes from its controllable flexibility, but I also think that it is fair to look for parts of the process that can be made simple.

    Transparency films are an example. The process is essentially standardised - made automatic. That allows the photographer to focus his/her attention on the other parts of the process when deciding what controls to make use of.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  3. #13
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerald C Koch View Post
    Yes, you can use a VC paper but what if your favorite paper doesn't come as VC? We can keep trading gotchas all day. I stand by my OP that there are no shortcuts to quality.
    Quality where?

    In lighting? Composition? Sharpness? Grain? The perfect paper? ....

    I really like MF negs but reasonably modern 35mm gear gives me speed and flexibility that allows me to catch more unposed "moments" and light better on-the-run. So in certain situations 35mm gets me higher quality compositions, more keepers, than 6x7 does.
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  4. #14
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    What does automation give you?

    Consistency and Reliability.

    If I can automate as much of the process as possible, it means that any change that I make to get a particular effect is NOT effected by the inconsistency I might have by doing the whole process without automation.

    I can't see that as a bad thing…...

  5. #15

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    Quote Originally Posted by markbarendt View Post
    Quality where?

    In lighting? Composition? Sharpness? Grain? The perfect paper? ....
    My post was only about development and nothing else. The complaint was about people seeking ways of avoiding such processing details as time, temperature, agitation, etc. Perhaps the use of the term "automatic" was ill advised but at the time I could think of no other. It was always used in quotes to make the distinction that it was being used with a special meaning. I never said that you can't avoid these things but you do pay a price. Hence the title of the thread.
    Last edited by Gerald C Koch; 05-03-2011 at 12:29 AM. Click to view previous post history.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  6. #16
    markbarendt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerald C Koch View Post
    My post was only about development and nothing else. The complaint was about people seeking ways of avoiding such processing details as time, temperature, agitation, etc. Perhaps the use of the term "automatic" was ill advised but at the time I could think of no other. It was always used in quotes to make the distinction that it was being used with a special meaning. I never said that you can't avoid these things but you do pay a price. Hence the title of the thread.
    My point is not that development isn't important or that it should be ignored, but that it is just one piece of the puzzle. (Heck, I enjoy manipulating contrast with development.)

    The consistency and predictability of any development system is important to a good result but highly accurate times and temps are just one route to that goal.

    Systems that go to completion, or nearly so, or ones which take a relatively long time are very tolerant of timing and temp errors. They are naturally consistent and predictable.

    If you miss the timing on C-41 by 1-minute or 5-degrees you have significantly changed the result, if you miss the timing on a 1-hour stand in Rodinal by 10-minutes or 5-degrees you may not even be able to tell.
    Mark Barendt, Beaverton, OR

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  7. #17

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    gerald

    if one knows his or her materials,
    it isn't hard at all to "set it and forget it"
    as ron popeil would say ... and whether it is
    graded paper or vc paper the results are the same

    but my methodology didn't just appear .. it took
    about a year to "fine tune" what seems to many is just
    - random - so in that respect i agree, there is no such thing
    as a free lunch - understanding one's film, paper and chemistry takes
    time and effort ...

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