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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.3D View Post
    A show of hands of everyone that has all the lenses they have wanted that are neither rare or good stuff.

    Bill
    Hi Bill,

    I'm getting there. There are a couple of lenses that I want in the $500 range and a couple of lenses in the $1000 range. I already have all of the commonly found lenses that I want.

    Dave

    "She's always out making pictures, She's always out making scenes.
    She's always out the window, When it comes to making Dreams.

    It's all mixed up, It's all mixed up, It's all mixed up."

    From It's All Mixed Up by The Cars

  2. #22
    kand
    Nah, Getting good prices for 4X5 stuff.

  3. #23
    DanielStone's Avatar
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    watch e-bay carefully

    watch craigslist, I've actually been able to email and buy things w/ Paypal from people listing things on C-List around the world, farthest one was in England!

    go to camera fairs(if you have one locally). You never know what you'll find. Dealers show up with the weirdest, and sometimes, unseen gear. I like going to the buyer's booths, even KEH's booth when they're there. Sometime you get to see funky stuff that might be worth bookoo bucks!

    -Dan

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by waynecrider View Post
    1. The economy was decimated by the housing bubble; Banks tightened up credit and raised interest rates before consumer protection laws took effect.

    2. People lost alot of money in the market 2 years back and then bailed out instead of buying.

    3. We all know digital has been killing off film cameras sales, which for a time gave us alot of deals on good lenses in dead brands till 4/3rd's came along. Now their just as expensive as ever, if you can find the good ones.

    4. Shipping and handling became expensive. Many sellers on Ebay became a little too greedy with their rates.

    5. Many older cameras need a cla and when you cost that in the price is much higher.

    6. I believe buyers (if any) that are on the sidelines are worried about films continuance. Too many film is dead articles.

    7. Labs are dying, processing fee's went up, and mailing film out is not cheap if you have to pay rates like $17 a 36 exp roll printed at pro labs. With mailing back and forth and handling you've got an easy $25 a roll cost for the enthusiast. Local labs are of course is best, doing your own better. Now the cheap route is Costco.

    8. The dollar lost value, gas is expensive, home insurance shot thru the roof if your near the hurricane coast, and food prices are up up.

    Really, I'm surprised anything sells in the U.S. concerning film cameras. Accessories and lenses go, but bodies(?) why, we all have drawers full.

    Given the list of idespread financial setbacks noted above, people are selling film cameras and equipment. There's a liquidation.

    The loss of the local mini-labs locally has absolutely killed interest in film. I see it mentioned in local ads repeatedly and have picked up and flipped a lot of gear lately as a result. No major outlets sell film anymore, nor process it (not Costco, Wal-Mart, nor any similar outlet such as drugstores; the bottom has completely fallen out of the market). Only 2 dedicated photo stores will have anything to do with film, and then it is relegated to the low-profile, back shelf.

    One owner says by next year all commercial lab film will be mail order and dry scanned printing; nothing in-house for C-41 even. He's basically looking at a franchise drop box similar to what they have for recycling inkjet cartridges to handle his remaining film customers. His staff will only oversee the paperwork and bulk mailing for processing, and they'll be FTP's the Frontier scans for local printing. He gives that process maybe 4-5 years maximum before he will not be able to cover that cost, but he also thinks within the next 2 years he will no longer be able to stock film at all. The refrigeration costs alone are too much for the return. He used to sell a 25-40 instant cameras per day in summer for the beach and lake crowd; last month total he sold 8. He has a very large clientele of older folks who have been customers for years, often with excellent film gear, and he says that they are also switching to digital.

    Why?

    At over $20 per roll for 135/36 processing and prints, the cost of using film is far beyond accessible for the average middle class household, pretty much anywhere. Even the local hipster store that had a lot of Lomo gear last year is hardly stocking anything new because there is no local processing and film + processing + shipping = $32. You cannot move camera stock at those prices. Film photography simply cannot even co-exist alongside digital at those prices.

    With no obvious source for film or processing, the average prosumer user cannot participate in the market. So film users dump their capital investment in the face of such an enormous increase in their operational cost. What applies to business is a factor in every household as well.

    The OP's complaint about prices is the flip side of the fact that film photography is going back to being a wealthy person's hobby.

    Everyone already invested in equipment and darkrooms here is so tied up in knots about the survival (and pricing) of film that overlooked is that the demand is driven by the mass market for cameras and processing. The latter is disappearing extraordinarily fast and the former's manufacturing base is almost totally gone from the mid-range market.

    You have to look at it this way: Every person who processes and prints their own is a customer also lost to the local lab, pro or mini. But the market has been entirely driven by cost-shifting where prices for all were pushed down to margin by the mass market sales to the mini-lab crowd. Take that away and prices can only go up, up, up. The operational cost between film and digital has reached a severe delta that goes far beyond the cost of manufacturing and distributing film alone.

  5. #25

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    Quote Originally Posted by CGW View Post
    Agreed that some US sellers are totally misinformed about overseas shipping even to Canada with full insurance and upgraded, trackable shipping.
    The prices I've seen for trackable shipping have been insanely high. Am I looking in the wrong places?

  6. #26

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    What I've noticed here in the Philippines is that some of the digi shooters are going back to film and local prices for 2nd hand stuff are outrageously overpriced.

  7. #27

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    My view is that there are maybe three main factors at work, and not all in the same direction.
    1. There has been an over-accumulation of film camera equipment in recent years as people who were not really collectors bought things they liked but sold little. With money tight that trend is perhaps slowing or even reversing.
    2. The impact of reduced film usage has resulted in many processing labs (whether quality or not) shutting down their business or that part of their business. Even printing from digital files is diminishing as people are just viewing stuff on their computers or posting on internet forums and galleries. It's a vicious cycle that continues to work against people maintaining or starting up an interest in film. An additional factor is that prices of film and processing has risen substantially.
    3. The US economy is not in good shape. People are being careful with their discretionary spending. However, point 4 relates -
    4. The US dollar is weak against many other currencies and so buying from the US is now quite attractive for people overseas. China and Japan, for example. Australia, too, but we don't have the population to make any sort of dent in the demand curve!

  8. #28

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    Quote Originally Posted by moose10101 View Post
    The prices I've seen for trackable shipping have been insanely high. Am I looking in the wrong places?
    You must be looking in the same place that I am. Last and only camera I sold on ebay cost me $55 to ship and insure for US delivery. I'm sure it was more expensive to send internationally.

    More importantly, I didn't want to sell internationally because not only does it usually equal more hassle with customs, shipping, etc., but you end up making less money for it once Paypal takes it's extra cut. So more hassle for less money?

    As far as buying stuff on ebay, speaking as a US buyer, I can usually find much better deals in forums than I can on Ebay. Heck, I can find much better deals at used camera stores on the internet than I can on Ebay.

  9. #29
    Aristophanes's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tim Gray View Post
    As far as buying stuff on ebay, speaking as a US buyer, I can usually find much better deals in forums than I can on Ebay. Heck, I can find much better deals at used camera stores on the internet than I can on Ebay.
    I can (and have) found better deals on APUG than on eBay!

    And with more trust between forum members.

    Locally I can see and touch before committing. That's important.

    The lack of affordable lab processing has become the biggest impediment to using film. The at-home lab is only economically viable if it is supported by the affordable lab ecosystem. When people see that lab processing is unaffordable they dump their film gear. It's an affordability issue and not a quality issue.

  10. #30

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    Quote Originally Posted by moose10101 View Post
    The prices I've seen for trackable shipping have been insanely high. Am I looking in the wrong places?
    I agree. But USPS First Class International is a bargain; cheap and surprisingly fast. However it's not trackable and you can't insure the package. I've shipped that way to China, Australia, New Zealand, Europe, and Canada without a hitch (at least not one yet). But generally low value (<$100) items. It does require a trip to the PO though.

    Unfortunately, ebay's recently policy change to base their fees on the total (item sale price plus shipping cost) forces sellers who did not inflate shipping prices to increase the shipping cost to recover that "hit".

    I've primarily sold items on ebay recently; usually items that garnered no interest here on APUG or on CL. And more than usual have gone to overseas buyers. You can still find good deals there but it's a funny market. I recently bought a 50mm AF lens that I wanted, with a N2000 body, cheaper than the typical price for the lens alone.
    "Far more critical than what we know or do not know is what we do not want to know." - Eric Hoffer

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