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  1. #21

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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post
    They did. Paint and brushes can be used to paint the walls of a house or they can be used to create great works of art. A pencil and paper can be used to make an artistic sketch or you could write a shopping list with it!

    Likewise, a camera can create art or documentation or illustration. It isn't necessarily art just because it was created with a camera (or paint and brushes or pencil and paper).


    Steve.
    hi steve

    i see what you are saying ...
    i guess i just see things a bit differently -
    Last edited by jnanian; 08-16-2011 at 08:10 PM. Click to view previous post history.
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  2. #22

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    From the title I thought this was going to be another AA vs. Weston thread Glad to be proven wrong.
    i can't wait to take a picture of my thumb with this beautiful camera.

    - phirehouse, after buying a camera in the classifieds

  3. #23
    Worker 11811's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Steve Smith View Post
    Likewise, a camera can create art or documentation or illustration. It isn't necessarily art just because it was created with a camera (or paint and brushes or pencil and paper).


    Steve.
    Almost anything can be art. Walking down the street could be artistic. You could swagger like John Wayne or you could stagger like Jerry Lewis. (See also: "The Ministry of Silly Walks.")

    You can draw a picture with a pencil or you can jot down a list.
    You can paint a painting with a brush or you can paint a barn.
    You can also cut down a tree with a chainsaw or you can sculpt a Venus de Milo.

    What I was getting at with the verbs "paint," "sculpt" and "draw" versus "take" (a photograph) is the perception of art as it is related to the tools used to create it. When you see a paintbrush or a pencil in a person's hand you are inclined to think about the result as art, regardless of the subject or purpose of the painting, because you perceive that the painting comes from the artist. When you see a camera in somebody's hand, you are less likely to think of the result as art because you perceive that the photograph comes from the CAMERA.

    I think it is this misperception that gets in the way of letting people see photographs as art. If somebody shows you his painting, you're not likely to ask him whether it was painted with oil or acylic. You aren't likely to ask him whether he used a sable hair brush or a China bristle brush. If a guy showed you a copy of the Venus de Milo sculpted with a chainsaw, are you going to ask him whether he used a Poulan or a Husquavarna?

    So, what the hell is the difference whether a photographer uses a Hasselblad, a Rolleiflex, a Leica, a Pentax or an empty beer can and a roll of duct tape?

    I like the technology of making photographs. It's one of the things that draws me to photography. I'm the kind of guy who loves to tinker with things. However, I do not look *AT* the camera when I make a photo. I look *THROUGH* the camera, both literally and figuratively.

    It's not the paintbrush that paints the painting. It's the painter.

    It's not the camera that makes the photograph. It's the photographer.

    Just as it is up to the intent of the painter or sculptor to decide whether or not he will make art, it is up to the photographer to decide the same.
    Randy S.

    In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni.

    -----

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/randystankey/

  4. #24
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jnanian View Post
    hi steve

    i see what you are saying ...
    i guess i just see things a bit differently -
    I thought I was agreeing with you!!


    Steve.

  5. #25
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    The technical part of photography is so easy in the grand scheme of things. There isn't much to know before you are very technically sound...and it is also quite possible to get good results without having much technical skill. So it is no surprise to me that there is so much photography and so much technical focus. But finding a current gallery show or book that I actually think consists of great photography is near impossible for me. Whenever something catches my eye, I find out that it is vintage work, or at least new work from an older photographer. This generation just doesn't have much to say IMHO. Now get offa my lawn, dammitt!
    2F/2F

    "Truth and love are my law and worship. Form and conscience are my manifestation and guide. Nature and peace are my shelter and companions. Order is my attitude. Beauty and perfection are my attack."

    - Rob Tyner (1944 - 1991)

  6. #26

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    The creation of a photograph is not a passive act. As soon as the image is made it is separated from everything else that the photographer saw. The photographer determines what is to be emphacized and what is ignored. A painter does exactly the same thing. The edge of his canvas determines what the viewer sees of the original scene. Whether the photograph is good or bad must be judged on how well the photographer conveys his vision.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Worker 11811 View Post
    A person paints a painting.

    A person sketches a drawing.

    A person sculpts a sculpture.

    A person designs and builds a building.

    But I merely TAKE a photograph. All the others use verbs that describe constructing or creating something but I must passively "take" or "accept" what is already there. Even if you use the verbs "shoot" or "capture" you are still not describing the creation of something. It almost describes the destruction, not the construction.

    Besides than "make" or "create," what are other verbs that can be used to describe the process of creating a photograph which are constructive or creative?
    As George Carlan observed a person is said to "deplane" when getting off an airplane. But you cannot "deboat", "detrain" or "debus." Lacking a special verb for a particular act does not make the trip any less valid. I find the above argument rather egregious.
    A rock pile ceases to be a rock pile the moment a single man contemplates it, bearing within him the image of a cathedral.

    ~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gerald C Koch View Post
    As George Carlan observed a person is said to "deplane" when getting off an airplane. But you cannot "deboat", "detrain" or "debus." Lacking a special verb for a particular act does not make the trip any less valid. I find the above argument rather egregious.
    De PLANE! De PLANE!

    (Sorry, I just had to do that!)

    Your point is taken but I like it when Andreas said:
    I guess we are lucky here in Germany. We photograph, you take pictures
    Randy S.

    In girum imus nocte et consumimur igni.

    -----

    http://www.flickr.com/photos/randystankey/

  9. #29

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    I observe what is in front of me. Notice the elements that make me interested in that subject. Then make a photograph of how I want to see it. The technique and equipment is just a vehicle to making the photograph the way I want to view the subject.

  10. #30

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    The verb you are all looking for is "photograph". It requires active participation and cogitation. Photography is not a spectator sport.

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