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  1. #11
    dpurdy's Avatar
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    Art should not be defined by a level of success or achievement or longevity. A lot of art is bad. Bad art is often interesting. Art is something an artist does usually entailing some level of experiment. It is not the place of a viewer to say I don't like this so it isn't art. Art is not a level of perfection it is an action.
    Dennis

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Toffle View Post
    Whichever word you prefer to use, the question is, "what is the lasting value of this photograph?"
    Much art, IMO, is very transitory, it is set in a context that is fleeting.

    For example political cartoons, graffiti (cave paintings), baby portraits, and fashion design all require special skills and real effort to create something of value. Their shelf life is radically different.
    Mark Barendt, Ignacio, CO

    "We do not see things the way they are. We see things the way we are." Anaïs Nin

  3. #13

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    I know it's a bit contrary to the general flow of praise for the departed Mr. Jobs, but why should his statements on art have any weight for any artist? Perhaps I'm missing something (happened before, I suppose), but he was good at industrial design (synonyms for fashion or style) and product marketing (again: style, fashion) not art. Perhaps there are those who will argue the iPod or iPhone or iProductX are "works of art." They are dead wrong.

    I do agree, however, that quality (I won't call it art because that's too loaded) tends to rise to the top slowly and may take a long time to grow on you. I know many of my most loved music collections (we used to call em cd's, and before that "records") were definitely not my favorites until the third, fourth, fifth listen. Then I began to be able to hear the depths more accurately. By the same token, a lot of music that strikes a chord with me the very first time I hear it (coldplay anyone?) becomes pathetic and hackneyed after the third or fourth listen.

    I suppose the same could be said for some photography and other visual arts but it's by no means universal. And, sorry, but the fact Steve Jobs said it should really mean nothing to us in this context.
    Jeff Glass

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  4. #14
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    Jeff-

    with all due respect, I think you're really selling Steve Jobs short here. What he did which was of culture-changing importance was to change the MEANING of a personal computer to the user, and the users' relationship with it. You can certainly argue that without him, what has happened would have eventually happened anyway, and someone else would have been the one to do it. But that's revisionist history at best. The fact of the matter remains that by bringing first the graphical user interface (GUI) and then hotly on the heels of the GUI bringing style and design to what is otherwise a utilitarian device, Steve Jobs gave people computers they could have a relationship with, and he forced the rest of the PC industry to at least try to take on that challenge with greater or lesser degrees of success. I don't know that it has any bearing on the question of what is art vs fashion, although I think you could argue that Steve Jobs was an artist by successfully marrying style and fashion to an industrial object. He's an artist the same way that Pininfarina and Bertone, the Italian coachbuilders, are artists who compose sculptures in steel, rubber, leather, lacquer and petroleum.

  5. #15
    MDR
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    Fashion can be art but doesn't have to be. And tastes in Art change a lot. The definition of art is a constant flux or more precisely you can't define art. imho

    Regarding Steve Jobs I believe him to be a true artist of marketing but not a designer or an artist in the classical sense, he had a great design team and always had a great team working with him (among them many employees of Xerox Parc GUI was first used in the Xerox Alto in 1973, 10 years before Apple) Saying Steve Jobs was a solitary great artist means deminishing the work of the team of which Jobs was a part. Apple always was and always will be a team effort like 99% of all great products. Sorry but what Steve Jobs says about art is really not releveant for photography or any other artform other then maybe multimedia art.

    Dominik

  6. #16
    TheFlyingCamera's Avatar
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    If what he says has no relevance to any artform, then no art critic's comments, opinions or formulation of an art theory has any validity either, as most critics are not practicing artists either. By that way of thinking, the last valid art critic was Vasari. Oh, scratch that, Hitler would have been a valid art critic because in addition to holding opinions about art, he was a painter too (an entire apartment in one afternoon, two coats!!).

  7. #17
    Eric Rose's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jglass View Post
    I suppose the same could be said for some photography and other visual arts but it's by no means universal. And, sorry, but the fact Steve Jobs said it should really mean nothing to us in this context.
    Your absolutely right. I only put his name to it because it was a direct quote. The statement is deceptively simple and will be dismissed by those that do not like to ponder things.

    Eric
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    "civility is not a sign of weakness" JFK

    "The Dude abides" - the Dude

  8. #18
    CGW
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    Doubt Steve would disagree that art without commerce is a hobby.

  9. #19
    MDR
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    Steve Job's opinions about art is as relevant as any other humans opinion about art just not more. I still believe that he is overhyped by the media and that he is given him too much credit for other peoples accomblishments which isn't his fault, but the medias

    Dominik

  10. #20
    Eric Rose's Avatar
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    Let's try and not concentrate on Steve so much and try and have a discussion about the quote instead. I know that will be hard for some.
    www.ericrose.com
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    "civility is not a sign of weakness" JFK

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