Switch to English Language Passer en langue française Omschakelen naar Nederlandse Taal Wechseln Sie zu deutschen Sprache Passa alla lingua italiana
Members: 70,222   Posts: 1,532,382   Online: 1090
      
Page 9 of 11 FirstFirst ... 34567891011 LastLast
Results 81 to 90 of 105
  1. #81
    holmburgers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Rochester NY (native KS)
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,418
    Images
    2
    Like I alluded to, I think that 3D synthesis is an interesting field. This short film, After Ghostcatching, was a perfect example of this. It created an immersive environment that would otherwise be almost impossible to experience.

    Don't get me wrong, when I look at a couple of stereo-cards I start to think, 'hmm, ok, this is just like what I see every moment of everyday'. A good b&w print has nothing on that.

    But the possibility of large format 3D images, and particularly without glasses, is very exciting (to me at least). I think it's easy to disregard 3D as a gimmick, but we've not seen its potential, and it requires a little optimism and little bit of imagination to imagine what fine art in 3D could do.. to you, the skeptic.

    I guess what I mean is that 3D doesn't have to be only documentary, and unfortunately that's about the only precedent we have to base our judgments on.

    Now, as for full-color holography, how does a statement like this not intrigue you?, "...it is possible to make a holographic image indistinguishable from the object itself."

    Just like when daguerreotypes were introduced and Matthew Brady set up his studio in Washington DC to photograph goverment officials, presidents, dignitaries & other important people, imagine if someone did the same thing today with color holography? I wouldn't see that as a gimmick, but rather the most advanced and perfect imaging technique yet devised (just like daguerreotypy was in the 1840's) and used to preserve a moment in time indefinitely.

    Enjoying the discussion...

  2. #82
    cliveh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Shooter
    35mm RF
    Posts
    3,191
    Images
    343
    If you are presenting an image on a 2D surface, why try and show it in 3D? If I look at a painting or photograph I expect it to be in 2D. If I want 3D, I look at sculpture. The nearest I have got to appreciating 3D on a 2D image is the thickness of paint on a Van Gogh.

  3. #83

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    24
    Quote Originally Posted by Photo Engineer View Post
    Two answers here Ed!

    As for making it yourself, the actual formulas and methods are very secret! There are only about 100 Photo Engineers left in the entire world. in 100 years, who will be around to teach it? Right now, out of the total membership of APUG, only about 20 are interested or are willing to act as you say may take place. So, the knowledge may be lost.

    PE
    I have over 3000 pages of formula and photographic text and trade books from the 19th and early 20th centuries that have almost every kind of photo formula imaginable... the hard part will be translating these (since chemical names and measures have changed remarkably in that time), verifying them, and making them work. There's no reason whatsoever that these be lost... and basic chemistry does not become obsolete.

  4. #84
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    22,972
    Images
    65
    Quote Originally Posted by jakyamuni View Post
    I have over 3000 pages of formula and photographic text and trade books from the 19th and early 20th centuries that have almost every kind of photo formula imaginable... the hard part will be translating these (since chemical names and measures have changed remarkably in that time), verifying them, and making them work. There's no reason whatsoever that these be lost... and basic chemistry does not become obsolete.
    Please look at my posts #42 and #46 here. The formulas you have are quite old and the authors have left out huge amounts of critical information for one reason or another. Many just have errors in them as is human nature. The Brovira formulas in Glafkides are filled with transcription errors and the originals in the BIOS and FIAT reports are very vague and misleading.

    So, think what you will, but you are due for a rude surprise with most of those formulas of yours.

    PE

  5. #85

    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    24
    I don't have the Brovia formulas, or the FIAT report... but the idea is to transcribe and see what's missing, or different, in each formula for the same thing. A good number of the books I have are explicitly "how-to" books, and a fair number are from various Kodak departments. I'm not looking for Kodachrome, or high-speed panchromatic rollfilm, or anything like that (although homebrew 4489 would be fun)... just sound, industry-independent image-capture abilities. I figure, as a scientist, it's a better starting point than anything else, even with the foibles of 19th century science.

    They also include several thousand developer, reducer, intensifier, and all kinds of nonsilver and alternative processes, and most of those are very close to the "modern" standards. So I'm not that worried about it. Not yet.

  6. #86
    Photo Engineer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2005
    Location
    Rochester, NY
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    22,972
    Images
    65
    Best wishes to you then.

    Remember, you never miss something until it is gone!

    PE

  7. #87
    dwross's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Location
    Oregon Coast
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    799
    Quote Originally Posted by jakyamuni View Post
    I don't have the Brovia formulas, or the FIAT report... but the idea is to transcribe and see what's missing, or different, in each formula for the same thing. A good number of the books I have are explicitly "how-to" books, and a fair number are from various Kodak departments. I'm not looking for Kodachrome, or high-speed panchromatic rollfilm, or anything like that (although homebrew 4489 would be fun)... just sound, industry-independent image-capture abilities. I figure, as a scientist, it's a better starting point than anything else, even with the foibles of 19th century science.

    They also include several thousand developer, reducer, intensifier, and all kinds of nonsilver and alternative processes, and most of those are very close to the "modern" standards. So I'm not that worried about it. Not yet.
    Hi jakyamuni,

    Fantastic news about your treasure trove of old recipes! Even better is to meet another optimistic practitioner of the the scientific method. The Venn Diagram approach to examining the old darlings is great fun (and, of course, probably more to the point -- very productive.) I look forward to seeing what you come up with. Hope you share!

    d

  8. #88
    keithwms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Charlottesville, Virginia
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    6,079
    Blog Entries
    20
    Images
    129
    Quote Originally Posted by holmburgers View Post
    Now, as for full-color holography, how does a statement like this not intrigue you?, "...it is possible to make a holographic image indistinguishable from the object itself."
    Artistically? Actually, no - it doesn't interest me in the least. I actually like the 2D aspect of photography. To me, putting a photograph on paper is like creative writing. The act of translating the 3D reality into the piece of art interests me.... the subject has to go through the eyes and thoughts and the hands of the photographer. I am usually more interested in those thoughts and what the photographer has to say than the literal subject itself. I guess it's a good thing I'm not a journalist
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

    [APUG Portfolio] [APUG Blog] [Website]

  9. #89
    holmburgers's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Location
    Rochester NY (native KS)
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    4,418
    Images
    2
    I see what you mean keith.

    I just think that given a new tool, an artist will emerge to make a noble use of it. And the tool itself is fascinating to me; from the standpoint of an invention, from a technological achievement and from the perspective of mimicking reality more and more perfectly.

    I think you're right though... we should be thinking of it first as a documentary device (I'm specifically referring to color holography at this point). Imagine a restaurant with color holographs of all their menu items, or life-like replicas of priceless works of art available to anyone, and of course the aforementioned portrait... and heck, just imagine what it might do to the nudey magazine industry!.... ok, scratch that last thought...

    One last note, holography doesn't suffer from the lame '2D planes stacked in a 3D environment' effect that you get from stereoscopic photography as we all well know. As you move your head, you see around the sides of objects and can follow contours in a natural way.

  10. #90
    keithwms's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Charlottesville, Virginia
    Shooter
    Multi Format
    Posts
    6,079
    Blog Entries
    20
    Images
    129
    Quote Originally Posted by holmburgers View Post
    I just think that given a new tool, an artist will emerge to make a noble use of it.
    Yes, I definitely agree with that! New artists and new tools of art are constantly emerging. It's refreshing to see what new minds will think.

    Let me commodify the conversation for a minute. The most valuable art today is.... any one of a number of ~300 year old paintings. Even Damian Hirst's diamond skull doesn't come close!

    I think the obvious lesson is that there are all manner of expensive and intricate tools and processes; yet relatively simple tools and techniques have yielded art of extraordinary value.
    "Only dead fish follow the stream"

    [APUG Portfolio] [APUG Blog] [Website]

Page 9 of 11 FirstFirst ... 34567891011 LastLast


 

APUG PARTNERS EQUALLY FUNDING OUR COMMUNITY:



Contact Us  |  Support Us!  |  Advertise  |  Site Terms  |  Archive  —   Search  |  Mobile Device Access  |  RSS  |  Facebook  |  Linkedin