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  1. #11
    djhopscotch's Avatar
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    You mean that it doesn't fire the shutter? Lens will always re-cock with the body.

  2. #12

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    Quote Originally Posted by djhopscotch View Post
    You mean that it doesn't fire the shutter? Lens will always re-cock with the body.
    When you use MLU, you either turn a knob on the lens (C lenses) or a screw in a cable-release socket (K/L). Then you cock the shutter, press the body release, which lifts the mirror, and then the cable release in the lens, which fires the shutter. The only difficulty is that when you are done with MLU, remember to turn the knob/screw back to normal. Otherwise you will be cocking and releasing the mirror with the body and never firing the shutter. There was recently a thread about a couple of yutzes who got caught out by this.

  3. #13

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    They are certainly different than a 35mm system.
    About the hand in front, black card trick... my understanding of that now is that it is for timed or bulb exposure only.
    blacking the lens before closing the shutter and not having to use the cable release. please tell me for I may totally have that wrong.
    How is the mirror shake when using slow aperture which is not bulb?
    Another thing, I was looking at the Bronica because of 6x6 availability. but with the Mamiya 6x7 system, could a person that wishes a 6x6 portrait just
    take advantage of the 6x7 landscape mode and crop the sides to the 6x6 square therefore not loosing any resolution because you are not loosing any of the negative sort of speak?
    If that is the case in all possibility, would this be a plus for the 6x7 size?
    Of course I may well probably be completely wrong...once again; just trying to get knowledge.
    Thanks for your time and patience.
    Ronald

  4. #14
    CGW
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    Quote Originally Posted by RonaldD View Post
    They are certainly different than a 35mm system.
    About the hand in front, black card trick... my understanding of that now is that it is for timed or bulb exposure only.
    blacking the lens before closing the shutter and not having to use the cable release. please tell me for I may totally have that wrong.
    How is the mirror shake when using slow aperture which is not bulb?
    Another thing, I was looking at the Bronica because of 6x6 availability. but with the Mamiya 6x7 system, could a person that wishes a 6x6 portrait just
    take advantage of the 6x7 landscape mode and crop the sides to the 6x6 square therefore not loosing any resolution because you are not loosing any of the negative sort of speak?
    If that is the case in all possibility, would this be a plus for the 6x7 size?
    Of course I may well probably be completely wrong...once again; just trying to get knowledge.
    Thanks for your time and patience.
    Ronald
    Yup. The shutter is opened with the the cable release but closed by turning the shutter speed dial on T. I just gently pop the lens cap back on or put a hat or toque over the lens hood before closing the shutter. It's not like you're going to be doing this in broad daylight most times, right?

    My take on cropping is: want 6x6, shoot 6x6. I can't see wasting the negative real estate when 6x7 goes 8x10 or 16x20 so nicely. But sure, you can certainly crop in camera and enlarge to 6x6 only. I splurged and got a Bronica SQ-B for square stuff. Nice camera that can also easily go down to 645 for 8x10, too.

  5. #15

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    True,
    Does the RB67 pro-s have a screw attachment for the cable release.
    I read that one of the flaws of the 645 Pro tl is that the cable release does not screw in and you need an adapter that does not work very well.
    And about the lenses on the 645; apparently they are not a leaf shutter and are limiting in sizes. Is that the N series?
    If the cable are better on the RB67 and lenses are more compatible and are the leaf type I am sort of leaning that way.
    Apparently the RZ are a pain in the ass to fix and expensive and many repairmen won't even touch them.

  6. #16
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RonaldD View Post
    True,
    Does the RB67 pro-s have a screw attachment for the cable release.
    I read that one of the flaws of the 645 Pro tl is that the cable release does not screw in and you need an adapter that does not work very well.
    And about the lenses on the 645; apparently they are not a leaf shutter and are limiting in sizes. Is that the N series?
    If the cable are better on the RB67 and lenses are more compatible and are the leaf type I am sort of leaning that way.
    Apparently the RZ are a pain in the ass to fix and expensive and many repairmen won't even touch them.
    Lots of questions!

    I have both cameras.

    The Pro-S uses standard screw in cable releases.
    The adapters for the 645 Pro-Tl that permit use of standard screw in cable releases work well for me. I have three different types.

    There are four lenses for the 645 series that have leaf shutters. There are old and new ("N") versions of three of them. They are somewhat more complex to use (require separate shutter cocking) than the more common, non-leaf shutter lenses, and I would recommend them more as special-purpose accessories than for every day use.

    The Mamiya 645 lens line is quite extensive, of generally high quality, and every manual focus lens in the line that has ever been made will fit on every camera body ever made in the line.

    I've never heard that complaint about the RZ line of cameras and lenses. One advantage of the RB lenses over the RZ lenses is that you can use the RB lenses on both the RB and RZ bodies, while the RZ lenses only work on the RZ bodies.

    The RZ line tends to be newer (although there is definite overlap) and the RZ benefits from electronic control of the RZ leaf shutters in the lenses.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

  7. #17

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    Thanks Matt,
    The more I read about the different models, the more I get confused.
    I am used to film going way back to the late 70's; but 35mm...
    I think I am getting confused with the Mamiya C330 and C220 models.
    THOSE are the ones with the leaf shutter in the lens enabling flash sync with all shutter speeds, right??
    Due to the nature of the SLR Medium Format, it is obviously a focal plane shutter.
    So the N system lens are actually leaf shutters in the lens and harder to use? is this what you meant?
    Victory camera has a nice 645 pro tl for sale, but it has the N series lens, is this type of lens better to avoid in my position
    because of the extra shutter cocking as per your thread response? If I understood correctly.
    Thanks, I may have this all wrong.... will the 645 lenses fit on the rb67's
    Ronald
    Last edited by RonaldD; 04-17-2012 at 02:47 AM. Click to view previous post history.

  8. #18
    Steve Smith's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RonaldD View Post
    I think I am getting confused with the Mamiya C330 and C220 models.
    THOSE are the ones with the leaf shutter in the lens enabling flash sync with all shutter speeds, right??
    Due to the nature of the SLR Medium Format, it is obviously a focal plane shutter.
    Mamiya RB67, RZ67, C330 and C220, Bronica SQ and ETRS are all leaf shutters in the lenses. Hasselblad V500 and Mamiya 645 have focal plane shutters but some lenses are available with leaf shutters.


    Steve.
    "People who say things won't work are a dime a dozen. People who figure out how to make things work are worth a fortune" - Dave Rat.

  9. #19

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    Thanks Steve,
    Things are slowly becoming uncluttered and categorized.
    Ronald

  10. #20
    MattKing's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RonaldD View Post
    Thanks Matt,
    The more I read about the different models, the more I get confused.
    I am used to film going way back to the late 70's; but 35mm...
    I think I am getting confused with the Mamiya C330 and C220 models.
    THOSE are the ones with the leaf shutter in the lens enabling flash sync with all shutter speeds, right??
    Due to the nature of the SLR Medium Format, it is obviously a focal plane shutter.
    So the N system lens are actually leaf shutters in the lens and harder to use? is this what you meant?
    Victory camera has a nice 645 pro tl for sale, but it has the N series lens, is this type of lens better to avoid in my position
    because of the extra shutter cocking as per your thread response? If I understood correctly.
    Thanks, I may have this all wrong.... will the 645 lenses fit on the rb67's
    Ronald
    Ronald:

    Nope !

    In no particular order...

    There is no compatibility between the Mamiya C series TLRs, 645 series SLRs or RB67/RZ67 SLRS (save a couple of grips and tripod mounting accessories) and of course, they all use 120 and 220 film.

    As Steve posted, SLRs can have focal plane shutters, or not. If they don't have a focal plane shutter (e.g. an RB67), you need lenses with leaf shutters. If they do have a focal plane shutter, leaf shutter lenses can be designed to work with them (essentially they are set up to synch in a special way).

    TLRs like the Mamiya C220/C330 will most likely have leaf shutters only, although I wouldn't be the least bit surprised to have someone post that there are rare and esoteric exceptions that I have never heard of.

    The first Mamiya 645 came out in 1975, so there has been 37 or so years of product changes since then. Included in those changes you will find a number of changes in the lenses being sold.

    Some of those 645 lens changes can be tracked by noting the series changes in the lenses:
    a) the original lenses are designated simply as "C" lenses;
    b) in some cases, there were lenses issued in an "A" series (APO?). Those lenses are designated with the C, plus an A; and
    b) in some cases, there were lenses issued in an "S" series (for smaller?). Those lenses are designated with the C, plus an S; and
    c) finally, the most recent lenses were issued in an "N" series (for newer?). Those lenses are designated with the C, plus an N.

    In the case of the special purpose lenses that have leaf shutters as well, they have an "/L" added to their designation - e.g. 150mm f/3.8 N/L

    The 645 N lenses have the most modern coatings and are the newest. So in most cases they are the most desirable. In addition, in some cases they have improved optical designs and may be smaller and/or lighter (e.g. the 45mm f/2.8 N lens).

    There have been leaf shutter lenses issued in each of the series (or at least the C, S and N series - I think). So an N designation has nothing to do with whether or not a lens has a leaf shutter.

    I would suggest not worrying about having a leaf shutter option available unless you expect to need to use fill flash. If you don't use fill flash, leaf shutters and focal plane shutters behave in similar ways. If you intend to use fill flash a lot, the cameras designed around leaf shutters (RB67, RZ67 or C220/C330) are more convenient to use. That being said, the leaf shutter lenses for the 645 series are a reasonable option, because they can be used in either focal plane shutter mode or, somewhat less conveniently, in leaf shutter mode.

    Unless you are not expecting to use much fill flash, I wouldn't suggest that you let the availability of leaf shutters dictate your choice.

    Have you compared the handling, sizes and weights of RB67s and the Mamiya 645 Pro Tl?

    Hope this helps.
    Matt

    “Photography is a complex and fluid medium, and its many factors are not applied in simple sequence. Rather, the process may be likened to the art of the juggler in keeping many balls in the air at one time!”

    Ansel Adams, from the introduction to The Negative - The New Ansel Adams Photography Series / Book 2

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