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  1. #41
    Leigh B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicholai View Post
    I'd rather have 1/400 leaf shutter than 1/1000 focal plane shutter, any day, without a second of doubt.
    Interesting statement. Is there some reason?

    - Leigh
    “Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.” - Plato

  2. #42
    Diapositivo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SkipA View Post
    Using a square format only implies cropping at composition time if that is what the photographer intends. Other photographers intend to compose in square format.

    The creativity of your argments to support your narrow view of art is amusing to me.
    I'm amused by your creativity in misunderstanding simple concepts.
    Fabrizio Ruggeri fine art photography site: http://fabrizio-ruggeri.artistwebsites.com
    Stock images at Imagebroker: http://www.imagebroker.com/#/search/ib_fbr

  3. #43

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    Gentlemen, it would be about the time to stop this barely helpful discussion about square versus triangle and get politely back to the original topic.
    ---
    My €0.02 would be - if you want to photograph pretty much 'everything' than a simpler and robust MF SLR will not be abad choice. As long as you do not mind the weight (ever had a RB67 or Pentax 6x7 in hand?) you will be able of great results - all systems have lenses between very good and excellent.

    Think whether you want/need built-in metering (or aperture priority) or not or what other features (waist level finder, ability to change film backs, lens speed & selection & price, ...) may be of interest to you. Check you budget too. The good point is - if you buy a reasonable setup and decide to sell it later you will not loose much cash.

    Concerning the 1/500 top shutter speed - based on my experience with a TLR and Mamiya 6 - yes, it can be limiting if you find yourself shooting ISO400 film on a sunny day AND wanting to shoot with large aperture - in that case a ND (4x or 8x) filter can get you what you need. But mostly it is the other way round - you have ISO100 film, slow lens and it is dark and cloudy day and you left your tripod home again as it was too heavy to carry (been there, done that).

    Concerning tripod - even though that pretty much any MF camera can be shot hand-held (and the rangefinders and TLRs are really easy to do), often a tripod is helpful to either allow for larger DOF or allow for longer lenses on a SLR (long lenses for MF SLRs are HEAVY) or get longer exposures.

    Macro & TLR - indeed TLR is not a perfect tool for macro shots, but down to about 0.5 m using the version I adapters (I have Rolleiflex/Rolleicord cameras in mind here) you can get the job done without additional accessories with little bit of training.

    My wild guess - if you think that 6x6 my not be your thing that starting with 645 SLR (Mamiya 645 Pro or Bronica ETRSi as Pentax 645 and Contax 645 are more expensive) might be a good choice. Surely - if you want to go for 6x7 do not let me stop you, but you not only gain larger negative, but also stronger mirror slap (what I read, not personal experience), larger weight and less photos per roll.
    ---
    Just to give you an idea on MF camera weights (includes film back and pentaprism finder for SLRs):
    Mamiya Pro TL + 80/2.8: 1.8 kg (Pentax 645N and Contax 645 very similar)
    Pentax 67 + 105/2.4: 2.3 kg (Bronica GS1 probably similar, RB67 is heavier as far as I recall)
    Hasselblad SLRs - I do not know
    Mamiya 6 (or 7) with 75/3.5 lens: 1.15 kg
    Fuji GA645: 0.8 kg
    Bessa III (Fuji GF670): 1.0 kg
    Plaubel Makina 67/670: 1.3 kg
    most TLRs: 0.9 - 1.3 (excludes Mamiya C models as those are heavier)


    The differences between RF and SLR get bigger once you start to add additional lenses as the SLR lenses are heavier. I do not want to say you should not get an SLR, just to make you aware of the weight What is really cool about MF SLRs is the look through the viewfinder. I had briefly Pentax 645N and the viewfinder was just great.

    And oc course - enjoy the process of choosing, buying, shooting and making nice prints

  4. #44
    Peltigera's Avatar
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    Once upon a time I would have thought worrying about weights was foolish. Now there is no chance of me buying a Pentax 67 - over 2kg hanging around my neck? No thank you.

  5. #45
    Peltigera's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nicholai View Post
    I'd rather have 1/400 leaf shutter than 1/1000 focal plane shutter, any day, without a second of doubt.
    I would as well. I must admit I have never used a high-end focal plane camera such as a Leica, but even my reasonably well designed and made Canon SLR produces a noticeable jar when you press the shutter release. I much prefer my Voigtlanders and their very slight whisper at the same point.

  6. #46
    Leigh B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Peltigera View Post
    ... even my reasonably well designed and made Canon SLR produces a noticeable jar when you press the shutter release.
    What you're feeling is the mirror movement.

    Focal plane shutters are extremely light. That's a design requirement to meet performance goals.
    In order to achieve rapid acceleration and deceleration, the mass of the curtains or blades must be very small.

    - Leigh
    “Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.” - Plato

  7. #47
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    The advantage of the leaf shutter to me is the flash sync - if I want fill-flash in daylight, it's hard to do it with a focal plane shutter, as most of them top out at 1/125th for flash sync. And most medium format focal plane shutters top out at 1/60th for flash sync.

  8. #48
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    Yep. Because of flash-sync. I barely ever need any faster. If there's too much light to do 1/400, ND filters work well.
    Nicholai Nissen
    Kolding, Denmark
    nicholainissen@gmail.com

  9. #49
    Leigh B's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheFlyingCamera View Post
    The advantage of the leaf shutter to me is the flash sync - if I want fill-flash in daylight, it's hard to do it with a focal plane shutter, as most of them top out at 1/125th for flash sync. And most medium format focal plane shutters top out at 1/60th for flash sync.
    Yes, that is a distinct difference in the technologies.

    However, it depends on the size of the leaf shutter.
    Top speed available on a Copal #3 is 1/125 of a second, so obviously it cannot sync flash any faster.

    The Copal Square focal plane shutter, used in all of Nikon's second-tier vintage cameras (FA-FE-FG-FM types),
    will X-sync at 1/250 because of its titanium curtains, vertical travel and faster traverse speed.

    - Leigh
    Last edited by Leigh B; 08-26-2012 at 12:50 PM. Click to view previous post history.
    “Wise men talk because they have something to say; fools, because they have to say something.” - Plato

  10. #50
    TheFlyingCamera's Avatar
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    Leigh- I'm talking about in this case specifically the leaf shutters found in medium format cameras. There may be some very old and/or very primitive medium format cameras that do not have a 1/500th of a second for a top shutter speed, but most medium format cameras have that 1/500th for a maximum shutter speed if they use leaf shutters. The focal-plane shutters in most medium format cameras top out at 1/60th or 1/90th for flash sync, even though they may go to 1/1000th or even 1/2000th for maximum shutter speed.

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