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  1. #21
    AgX
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    It won't hold 120 film very flat, ...
    The rebate guides are even wider as with standard cameras for type 120, which would enhance film flateness.

  2. #22
    Alan W's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChristopherCoy View Post
    I'm confused. I measured the window, the manual and camerapedia link clearly state it's for 120 film, and that it takes 3x4.5cm frames.... And you still say it won't work as designed?

    I usually look up to most of you for information, but y'all seem to be so against the fact that this size frame just isn't possible. What is it about this camera that makes y'all thing it's wrong, or I'm wrong or whatever?

    All I really wanted to know was how to advance it to get properly spaced negatives.
    I don't think you're wrong or anything,I'm just amazed that a camera would take the supposed benefit of 120 film,a 6 cm side,and shorten it,while still using 120 film.Seems like it would be easier to use another format.Having said that,I'm fascinated by strange old cameras myself-Good Luck!

  3. #23
    Sirius Glass's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alan W View Post
    I don't think you're wrong or anything,I'm just amazed that a camera would take the supposed benefit of 120 film,a 6 cm side,and shorten it,while still using 120 film.Seems like it would be easier to use another format.Having said that,I'm fascinated by strange old cameras myself-Good Luck!
    One body design was used for 35mm, 127, and 120 film to cut production costs.
    Warning!! Handling a Hasselblad can be harmful to your financial well being!

    Nothing beats a great piece of glass!

    I leave the digital work for the urologists and proctologists.

  4. #24

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    sure there is a little extra room between the frames, who cares ?

  5. #25
    AgX
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sirius Glass View Post
    One body design was used for 35mm, 127, and 120 film to cut production costs.
    Camerapedia does not hint at type 127. There is one type 135 and three type 120 cameras.
    All have different bodies.

    I assume the idea two produce as alternative to 6x6, 3.5x4 and not 4.5x6 cameras was just to get more frames on an easy to access film.

    The price per frame would be the lowest of all type 120 variations. I don't guess that frame size, regarding quality, was that much an issue for that range of cameras.

    With 6x6 and smaller negatives would have to enlarged anyway, so the cost regarding frame/film would only be part of the story, with the alternative of type 127 film in mind.
    So it falls down on many exposures on easy to access film.
    Last edited by AgX; 11-25-2012 at 01:04 PM. Click to view previous post history.

  6. #26

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    there were/are several 120 format cameras and they were all pretty different.
    it wasn't 1 body for everything ... i had a II as well as a 24s. one had a collapsable lens a few shutter speeds
    and a flash sync, they are pretty much like a 120 box camera but italian, cast aluminum, futuristic-50s and much cooler looking than a 50s brownie..
    the removable mask was a pretty funny idea. there are a lot of multi format box cameras i have and use an agfa which uses fins that flip up
    and mask the film area, and 2 windows ( like the bencini ) the only drawback for the bencini's removable mask pieces/clips
    is they are small and can be lost ( and usually are by the time they reach ebay ). the bencini has a viewer and it is eye level the boxes are usually
    waist level milk glass ... PITA...

    the 127 comet was pretty fun .... even thought it was made in the 60s/70s(?)
    it shot vertical and looked like a 1990s / 2000s camcorder.. much more fun than a kodak flashfun ...

    in the end most cameras are goofy and exactly the same a box and a shutter ...

  7. #27
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChristopherCoy View Post
    I'm confused. I measured the window, the manual and camerapedia link clearly state it's for 120 film, and that it takes 3x4.5cm frames.... And you still say it won't work as designed?

    I usually look up to most of you for information, but y'all seem to be so against the fact that this size frame just isn't possible. What is it about this camera that makes y'all think it's wrong, or I'm wrong or whatever?

    All I really wanted to know was how to advance it to get properly spaced negatives.
    I never said it won't work but it's going to have possible film flatness issues, but then it was a budget camera anyway and film flatness was a problem with many cameras which it competed with at the time and particularly the Instamatics introduced slightly after. The way there's no film rollers either side and the wide rebates would indicate that even with a pressure plate on the back it would be difficult to hold the 120 film flat.

    It's just a rather strange design, why would you design a camera to shoot a 127 half frame size on 120 film, but as others have said one body for various film sizes would keep manufacturing costs low. They are often refered to as Toy cameras.

    Ian

  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ian Grant View Post
    . They are often refered to as Toy cameras.

    Ian


    Yes they are. Aside frame the frame size, the Bencini's are just like the Certo Phot. The Certo is German, the Bencini is italian. Otherwise the both have two apertures, three shutter speeds, and aluminum cast bodies.

    And both of these are nothing more than metal Holgas.

  9. #29
    Ian Grant's Avatar
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    The British Coronet is much the same with a high quality meniscus lens ;D

    The important point is to assume like you have already that they are just old fashioned Holgas but many people had great fun and plenty of reasonable images with them in the 50's and 60's. The Ensign FulVue is a a TLR camera of similar low tch build and they sold extremely well in the UK, there was a US copy

    A downside is the old thick emulsions like Verichrome (Pan), and Selo (Pan) with their wide exposure latitude aren't available any longer.

    Ian

  10. #30

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    Just remember you are talking about an Italian camera made out of recycled American airframe aluminum. I have a 127 model and yes, it's a piece of crap. I would say it looks nice on the shelf but it doesn't. Seems like a waste of film shooting 3x4.5 on 120 film. Take a couple of pics, document it, put them in the book and retire that poor bastard child.

    tim in san jose
    Where ever you are, there you be.

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